Could this recruiter be on an inverse type commission where they get paid more by getting people to accept a low ball offer? It sure seems like it. Also the high pressure tactic is another cheap salesman trick.
I am, among other things, a published game designer (our company was later purchase by one of the ‘big boys’). A degree in Game Design is not really looked upon as an avenue toward employment in the industry. It was really the response of colleges to capture market they had been missing. If he has skills, it will take some contacts or a self-published title or two to get in the door at many places…or a willingness to start as a tester at an entry level pay rate.
If your son is not articulate, he may simply be interviewing very poorly and his choices will be limited until he gains confidence and experience.
I would check into the recruiter. While there are some high paying entry-level jobs, the anecdotes exceed the reality for most. It may be best to work at the entry level for a few years and gain experience.
The $40,000 pay level appears to be significantly below the norm for an entry level computing job (or even an MIS/IT job).
For example, the University of Alabama is in a low cost-of-living area and may not attract that many non-local recruiters, but CS graduates for May 2016 who found jobs found median pay of $62,500, with range from $52,000 to $106,000.
https://career.sa.ua.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/EG-Summary-Report-May-2016.Bachelors.pdf
Those graduating in MIS found median pay of $63,000, with range from $45,000 to $80,000.
https://career.sa.ua.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/CB-Summary-Report-May-2016.Bachelors.pdf
UCB, I get it. That is partially skewed by my interpretation of ‘not-articulate’ to mean the boy does not interview well. Interviewing skills are important. Few jobs can be done in isolation and the ability to communicate effectively, in person, is still important in the tech sector. If you cannot help a hiring manager understand why he/she should hire you, it may mean taking a lower than typical starting pay. My comment was also partially due to too many recent graduates expecting to get 6-figure starting pay. While some do, it is not the norm.
It looks like the “not articulate” comment was made by someone other than the original poster, so it is not known whether that applies to the original poster’s kid.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that sales and marketing skills (selling and marketing oneself) are important in being able to get a job.
Not articulate and not interviewing well are quite vague - if that’s the root of the problem, it requires different action - maybe coaching and interview prep. Most programmers just need to prove their coding skills as part of the hiring process. S has worked as a developer, and now hires CS majors - coding skills are definitely the first consideration.
If I remember correctly, I get the sense the OP’s son isn’t even getting many interviews. To me, that sounds like an issue away from being articulate - resume too focused on gaming for non-gaming jobs, not seeking out entry level jobs, not applying broadly, not networking might be causes.
The OP mentioned before that the kid mainly used a general job posting site instead of NEU’s career center. Seems like NEU’s career center would be much more target-rich in terms of jobs for new college graduates, particularly in the local (Boston) area. At least one would hope that NEU’s career center is decent, given how pre-professionally oriented that school is.
^^That was the critical bad decision. The career center people are there to put the grads in front of companies looking for entry level employees. Going into the general pool on sites like indeed is like throwing your resume into a black hole, and he’s competing against people with more experience.
I having trouble accepting that $40k with benefits is a low offer. Sure, there may be others getting $62k offers but THIS graduate isn’t. So his choice is $40k or $0.
If he doesn’t want the job and isn’t destitute, then turn it down. It’s not the employer’s fault or the recruiter’s fault. This is the job and this is what it pays. If everyone turns it down, the employer will realize the market demands he pay more.
If he doesn’t take the job (which sounds like a bad one) I suggest reworking the resume to have almost no mentions of game design. He should emphasize his general coding skills, and his experience and knowledge of languages and systems.
Agree with you Fang. I just “helped” someone who was trying to enter my field but also looking for very specific technical jobs as well as more tangential general entry level jobs. I had her prepare two resumes and talked through a bunch of listing to help her see which jobs to send the different resumes too. Prior to that she had spent four months with very few phone interviews and only 2 in-person interviews. A couple months later she was doing more phone interviews and more in-person interviews and landed a job she liked. It takes time and it also can hurt if the resume doesn’t “read” just so for the position that is posted or opened. If you can’t get the phone interview you never have an opportunity to explain what is on your resume and why. The resume has to be spot on for the position these days.
Another point IS the communication. My second son got his first out of college job because he interviewed well. And they told him that when they made the offer. After he started he heard lots of stories from the hiring manger and the hiring team about some of the people who had “better resumes” but the hiring team didn’t think they would “fit in” with the other employees and my son was the only one who talked about something other than why they should hire him so they felt like they “sorta” knew him. He was “competing” with 4 kids out of UofM with the same degree he had from his nobody knows it college and all 4 probably had better GPAs than my son LOL. My third son got his first internship by cold calling people, but each time he made the connection in the company so launched into the cold call by talking about the connection. The job he landed the night after an in-person interview he was at a charity event, dressed appropriately for the event and the person who was the hiring manager was there and said “wow, you’re here, now I have to hire you” and the offer came two days later. You have to network these days…nothing happens solely off your GPA and your college name or major.
My oldest son just fell into his job after graduation because he had worked off and on for the company. He started with a low-ball offer and starved for a year or two, but then the advances came and he’s content. It’s not always about salary if you like the job…if you don’t like the job or the company that is different.
Finally, all jobs factor and for recent college grads it helps to demonstrate that you have worked. For son 2 he was the only one of the interviewers who had actually supervised, hired and fired. So the degree mattered, his interviewing skills mattered and his past work experience mattered. They didn’t care it was a restaurant which had nothing at all to do with the job he was interviewing for… the job he was being hired for had direct reports so they needed to understand that he had actually supervised people. Again, have your son revisit his resume and add any work experience no matter how not relevant it “feels.” It might just be relevant.
I know this doesn’t necessarily help the OP, but I think it points out that different people land that first job in different ways but being personable and articulate and networking are pretty key for just about all “first jobs.” Absent that you have to be able to articulate and more importantly relate how “college and life experiences” are applicable to the job and the people in front of you. After that there is much more emphasis on prior experiences.
I agree that tweaking resumes to highlight the areas that the hiring folks want to see is very important. I’ve tweaked my resumes a lot, depending on the job I was seeking and it was very effective. It’s not dishonest, just better packaging so that the reviewer doesn’t have to dig to see the things s/he is looking for.
I suspect that the OP is really just looking for information about this particular job, this specific question, however…
I believe there is a tremendous amount of information on this thread that can help other young people looking for their first jobs. There are some real nuggets of wisdom on here.
As far as the networking, it seems that everybody I talk to about how their kid got their jobs nowadays said their child had some sort of contact. Not like Mom or Dad owning the company, but someone giving them a referral. And many people get paid a couple of thousand dollars if one of their referrals gets hired, so they want to refer people.Though my son didn’t get hired from any of those interviews he got through contacts, at least he got a number of interviews through them. Finding a contact seems to be key. Any of your old friends, acquaintances, parent’s friends, someone sitting in a bar next to you, anyone. My younger son started calling former fraternity members that were in tech fields and asked them for help. He made many contacts at the meetups, and I’ve heard hackathons are a huge event for recruiting. Just getting out there and talking to people in the industry, telling them you’re looking for a job. Hanging out a places where tech people are, working on projects and sharing common interests, you meet people.
And in interviewing you want to try and make a personal connection with the interviewer. They can see on your resume what you wrote so it’s best not to sit there and “tell” them what they can read.That’s a bad interview whether by phone or in person. “Tell me about yourself” doesn’t mean to talk about why you fit the job. “Tell me about yourself” is a cue to see if you can be social. So i tell young people to practice the “tell me about yourself.” Maybe the OP can practice interviewing with her son so he has answers in his head to normal types of interview questions.
“practice the “tell me about yourself.” Maybe the OP can practice interviewing with her son so he has answers in his head to normal types of interview questions.”
Yes, have a couple minutes of spiel prepared and ready to go to answer this question. One should also have a shorter “elevator pitch” ready to go. You can get advice on both just by googling.
Practice with mock interviews can be very helpful, especially for someone who isn’t outgoing or verbal in nature. Asking a family friend who does interviewing would be a better source for this, IMO, then relying on mom as less familiarity more reminiscent of a real interview and perhaps more impartial feedback would be beneficial.
And I agree with @busdriver11 about signing referral fees. Hit up former classmates and check out what positions might be available at the companies they work for. You could also find them on linkedin and visit their companies’ websites to access career openings and ask for a reference if you find suitable openings.
This is probably part of the reason that people become unemployable after long term unemployment.
S had his 4th in-person interview today. He is cautiously optimistic (which doesn’t necessarily mean anything more than he’s relieved that its over. . .) And he got 2 more leads today (one from someone on CC, one from his dad’s friend.) Action seems to have picked up with the new year. S had one interview in August, and 3 since January. Plus a few more phone interviews or tests that didn’t lead to in-person interviews. Thanks for helpful info. on this thread.
That is awesome, atomom! We noticed a big pickup in interviews just recently, too. That is wonderful that someone here on cc can give a good lead or helpful information! Your son should not get discouraged, people often go through a large number of interviews in this field before they get a job.
If he’s open to it and the fed govt ends it’s hiring freeze, the fed govt does employee lots of college grads and is a good employer.