<p>"Seems to me they would get better results by offering scholarships (to college, trade school, or other training) to every Maine student "</p>
<p>You may be right, but Maine probably can’t afford to do that. I doubt if any state could afford to do that. </p>
<p>If the students have to apply, however, they will have to send the apps via their GCs, who can help them learn about scholarships and loans.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t have thought Georgia could afford to do that either, but evidently they are funding the HOPE scholarships through a state lottery.</p>
<p>I don’t think that the states offering scholarships, however, offer them to all h.s. graduates, only to top ones. From what I’ve seen, middle and high income students get the lions’ share of such scholarships, which are tied to grades and scores.</p>
<p>Most of the first generation college students whom I taught in a 2nd/3rd tier state university in a state that offered such scholarships had not gotten them. </p>
<p>This is why I prefer what Maine is considering doing. I assume that this would mean that all students would have to get information about post h.s. options including financial aid for things like vocational programs.</p>
<p>I’m with northstarmom, bethievt, and a minority of posters above who think this idea has merit. HS’s do many things that are just “exercises” or assignments to give kids an experience not likely to occur from home. For example, we have 20 hours of service required for government (10 in community, 10 in the political process), to kick-start some citizenship habits. Perhaps in your home or mine, it’s not necessary, but it surely is in other homes.</p>
<p>Somebody is saying to many students, "even if you have other plans (e.g., military), you can try out writing these essays and organizing your information this way. </p>
<p>If some percentage of Maine h.s. students realize that, following this exercise, they could file the applications, then there might be some unexpected futures for some. It’s not costly to the public, but has many benefits for an undefined number of students whose lives could change quite a lot from this exercise.</p>
<p>It is another time-consuming responsibility for teachers to oversee, an unfunded mandate pulling upon their curriculum time, but what else is new? Looking at the big picture, it could be worth dropping a unit to work on this instead.</p>
<p>It also can be built into the courses the students have to take anyway, courses like English and vocational courses.</p>
<p>The requirement also could be fulfilled by having all of the seniors fill out an application during a school assembly.</p>
<p>disclaimer: longtime lurker with a changed identity to protect my kids’ privacy</p>
<p>My #2 child will be graduating from Mt Ararat HS on Sunday (the school the second article was about); # 1 already graduated and is now a college student. The school’s profile is available online if you’re interested enough to search it out.</p>
<p>Although I understand what the school is trying to accomplish, I (and all the local parents I have spoken with) disagree with this requirement. I would have no problem with a requirement to properly fill out a job application or college application or other alternatives but the reality is that there are HS graduates who have no intention of attending college and that should be all right. I know of local kids who will be going directly into family owned businesses. Others will make their living from the ocean (lobsters, etc). The local shipyard used to be the best job around but no longer due to layoffs, etc. Our local NAS (naval air station) is closing which means a lot of financial apprehension in the area. Most of the available jobs in this area do not require even a HS diploma so where is the incentive for the kids to go to college? Many of the local college grads are having to go out of state to find jobs which will allow them to pay off their loans. Many kids who want to attend college simply can’t afford it. The COA at Umaine is $17,138. The cc’s are overcrowded and underfunded. The majority of voters in Maine seem to value a HS education but not a college one as money for the state’s universities and colleges gets voted down. </p>
<p>All students at MtA are able to go on at least one college visit while an undergrad (through the HS) and at least one major college fair. They have a lot of resources available to any student even remotely interested in any post-HS education (including vocational, technical training). There are financial aid information nights, scholarship packets available in the guidance office, etc. It is not a lack of information which is stopping these kids from attending college.</p>
<p>I could rant on but that’s enough for now. Sorry, but this really hits a nerve with me.</p>
<p>Marian-
The measure would permit the Maine Department of Education to encourage students to complete applications for college, the military…</p>
<p>I think it implies you did not read this article.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. It’s forcing kids to possibly apply for something they aren’t even interested in for the next four years as a requirement for high school graduation? I agree that a scholarship for middle of the road and top students is a better idea. It actually has more behind it that an empty college app.</p>
<p>Usually it’s not lack of info that holds poor kids back; it’s lack of someone saying, “this could be you.” </p>
<p>The problem sounds like regional poverty. With no local jobs, where’s the incentive? I understand that, having lived in a poor rural region with collapsed economy. The hs bussed all kids to walk the local community college, a first glimpse for most. They saw dorms, pool tables and such. I don’t know if it netted any new applicants. </p>
<p>I think the real “bite” is that a college education from a rural town means a brain-drain and the families know their kids won’t live close. It has profound effects on how extended families will live. Even today, when I hear parents from poor towns lament their kids’ distance following college, I disagree. I know they miss their kids, but how can you clip their wings? It’s very emotional and a mixed blessing, indeed. Our kids will never return to live near us, simply because there are not enough jobs around us, here or in our previous rural town. The sad thing is, I wouldn’t want them to live close if it means no future for them. I’ll hire somebody to put up my screens, etc. </p>
<p>Also, I must wonder about the gender opportunities in the ocean industries.
Does it work for girls as well as boys? </p>
<p>Not an easy problem, but where else to begin to lift a region’s families up to a higher level for the next generation? Some say, if the local workforce were better educated, it could attract new industries to move there.</p>
<p>No one would be forcing the kids to apply for somehing they aren’t interested in for the next 4 years.</p>
<p>As stated before, in order to be self supporting in our society, one now needs some kind of post high school education or training. That could be getting a barbering or beautician or nail technician certification or doing something like going to a 4-year college.</p>
<p>What Maine is considering doing is what most of us on CC and other thoughtful parents do anyway: Forcing our kids to make some kind of decisions while high school seniors that will put them in a positon afterward in which they eventually will be able to support themselves.</p>
<p>We help our kids realize their options, and then we help our kids make applications.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many if not most parents don’t do this, but expect the kids to somehow magically acquire the skills that would make them employable. If Maine implements their program, I do assume that as part of this, they’d be helping the kids figure out what kind of post high school vocational and educational options would best suit their interests and talents, and how they can obtain admission and gain funding to do so.</p>
<p>If all that happens is that all Maine seniors become aware of how they can acquire some skills/education to support themselves, that would be a wonderful benefit of this program. I also imagine that some students will put in applications only because they were made to, but when they get an acceptance, they may decide to go to that program and then be very fulfilled there.</p>
<p>It’s important for us to realize that particularly for first gen college or even high school graduates from nonimmigrant families, it can be difficult for them to visualize themselves as getting additional training or education. Forcing them to go through the application process can be a confidence boost that could pay off by their achieving more than their parents and ancestors were able to.</p>
<p>We almost moved to Maine but the job prospects were pretty bad although its bad here in GA too. In GA all the places where high school students could work are being filled by illegals. Many of my friends and I haven’t been able to get summer employment… but back to Maine. I think most of the economy comes from tourism at least from what we saw and people buying 2nd homes for vacation or retirement.</p>
<p>Mt Ararat itself is not in a particularly “poor” area but it is traditionally a very blue collar area. Bowdoin College (Brunswick) is just a couple of miles away (the Memorial Day parade starts at MtA and ends in downtown Brunswick, very close to the college). Many Bowdoin students student teach at MtA and at least two of my kids teachers were Bowdoin grads. There is a lot of interest in voc/tech education (many MtA students attend the local voc school along with HS). I think the required SAT’s in junior year, paid by the state, is a wonderful idea although the kids hate it (mandatory Saturday school). I would think that seeing their scores and getting mail from colleges would be a huge boost for the kids that are undecided. But a forced college app is not appropriate. </p>
<p>Many students do want to pursue technical education but the cc’s are over-crowded and they can’t afford to go elsewhere. </p>
<p>Perhaps if Maine had more affordable and more diverse post-HS educational opportunities available there would be more interest in pursuing them. A forced application won’t change the options available to these kids.</p>
<p>They can go out of state. There are more technical and vocational options than community colleges.</p>
<p>This is easily one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. All it will accomplsh is to further diminish the value of a high school degree and, eventually, diminish the value of a high school degree. They force kids to pay more money and spend more time in order to get the same job they could have gotten with a high school degree fifty years ago. This is a step in exactly the wrong direction.</p>
<p>How does it diminish the value of a high school degree to require students to apply to college?</p>
<p>I guess I stated that poorly. The problem is the state not recognizing that a college degree is not necessary for everything. It is good to encourage people to seek education and specialization, but encouraging people people universally to pursue a higher degree is unnecessary. As more people obtain degrees, they serve as less of a distinction and lose value. In many cases the purpose of school is not to learn how to do a job (although there obviously are many instances where this is the case) but rather to demonstrate ability.</p>
<p>I live in Maine… 20 minutes from Poland High School, the school in the article…and I truly think this is a horrendous idea. I’m in a class of 300 or so students… on the ranking scale, the latter 150 do not go to college, nor could I ever forsee them going to college. Most of them are just not made for that type of experience. Many would prefer to join the armed forces or take up a vocation right out of high school. College really isn’t right for everybody, and it should not be something forced upon students. But don’t get me wrong… it should be encouraged.</p>
<p>Note that the proposed law wouldn’t require the students to apply to college, but “The measure would permit the Maine Department of Education to encourage students to complete applications for college, the military, and other postsecondary opportunities.”</p>
<p>Consequently, the measure should be useful to all high school graduates, including those who aren’t interested in careers that would require a college education. Virtually all jobs that would allow a person to be self supporting now require some kind of post secondary school training or education. Many students and their parents don’t realize that.</p>
<p>It’s the job of high schools to educate all the students under their roof. All this measure seems to be saying is that the students must organize an application to something that follows high school.
It used to be true that, following h.s., blue collar kids could walk down the street into their town’s factory and get a job, with one conversation and a handshake, good for the next 30 years. They didn’t even need to write a resume, which was a big shock when they were laid off from manufacturing jobs in the l970’s around the Rust Belt. Whether it’s the fishing industry, the coal mines, or steel mills, industrial/manufacturing jobs are no longer the destination for most h.s. graduates in the Northeast. Instead, it’s Wendy’s and Denny’s, or folding linens at the hotels along Route 1 (Maine’s tourist route).
I think it’s great if the Maine DOE takes some responsibility to do more for h.s. graduates than let them zone out all senior year, go to a prom, make hoo-hah noise at graduation and hand them a diploma and say, “good-bye and good luck.” Tourism industry has a wide-bottomed pyramid; the jobs are very low-level, with few in management; ownership is often corporate and from afar. So if Maine’s strongest industries remain the oceans and the tourists, it seems like a dim horizon for its current young residents.
Maybe it’s the wrong first-step, but at least it’s a first step. Even if only 5% of the students change plans because of it, I don’t know that there’s any other better program being talked about. In other words, why NOT do it? The overcrowded CC’s is the problem to solve; otherwise we’re just saying we’re afraid it might succeed.
Sorry to sound like I’m huffing and puffing, or running for office. I’m aware of the Mominme’s feelings, and she’s right on the scene. Still, some rural states
chug along year after year without any political vision or will to fix anything. It’s like Appalachia in the l960’s before the Kennedy’s got there. I find the separation between rich and poor in this country truly staggering. And if there aren’t any jobs for the kids of “blue-collar” parents, they will be “poor” within a generation. That can’t be good for any state.
I’d like to learn more about whether industries really do relocate to poor rural regions if the workforce education level improves. The cost of housing and lifestyle amenities in rural areas are often attractive. Infrastructure (airports, electricity) is also important. But I think it could be a deal-breaker if an industry trying to locate some new “light” technology finds out the local workforce can’t be counted upon as employees.</p>
<p>This is a great idea. How hard can it be for one student to send in one application? Not everyone is cut out for college, but they should be encouraged to further their knowledge, be it at a vocationary school or at a university. All this does is force a student to think of another option for their future and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Many students need some outside guidance to do well and I am a perfect example of that. Not everyone is blessed with parents or family who understand how vital a post-secondary education is.</p>