Maine Middle School to Offer Birth Control

Parent Cafe
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<p>…I’m floored. You just completely ignored what I posted. Completely. Didn’t even stop to consider it. I’m truly amazed.</p>

<p>So I’ll repeat it.</p>

<p>The theory behind the “well, they’re going to do it anyways, so let’s make it as safe as possible” is sort of a calculus of total happiness - utilitarianism, if you know what that is. Using the sex issue, as a whole, will middle schoolers be better off if we provide birth control or not? Well, we can take a hard line against sex, and then there might not be quite as many having it, but there will be more pregnancies. Many more. This vs. accepting the fact that despite us not wanting them to have sex, some will, and so we make it as safe as possible, more or else eradicated the pregnancies, and maybe as a result of the illusion of safety and word of mouth, some more kids start having sex. But overall, the kids are better off.</p>

<p>The difference with your homeless people example is that leaving them alone may not be better on the whole. Homelessness is a tough one because the costs and benefits are not always clear. Your previous example, murder, tis a perfect example of a law that doesn’t get abolished because people murder in spite of it, because if it were abolished society would be worse off.</p>

<p>Do you get it yet?</p>

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<p>Maybe I’d be more inclined to listen to it if you weren’t so condescending to me.</p>

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<p>Well, I could respond with “maybe I wouldn’t be so condescending if you didn’t ignore the points to start with”, but it’s a bit irrelevant. Whether or not you find my tone offensive, the point is there in plain view and you’re ignoring it. I don’t particularly care if that’s a result of hurt feelings or if it’s a purposeful argumentative tactic; the end result is the same.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I didn’t particularly intend to come across as so condescending, since that’s not really what I’m trying to get at here.</p>

<p>It just irritates me when I create an argument made up of several components that build on each other, and then someone picks one of the components, makes a flippant, dismissive comment about it, and then acts as if they’ve destroyed the argument. That or outright ignores the whole thing.</p>

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<p>Why is elementary school in the birth control business ?</p>

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<p>It seems that a Princeton education does not shield one from absurdity. A 17 year old having sex with a 13 year old is morally wrong, but it’s “ok” for two 13 year olds to have sex because of “symmetry” not morally wrong and merely misguided ?</p>

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<p>edvest, I suppose you probably should’ve read and comprehended the point behind that argument. Since I suppose you didn’t, I’ll start by pointing out that at least Princeton shields me from having to deal with fools in my daily life. The internet, though, is a different story in many cases.</p>

<p>Now. A 17 year old having sex with a 13 year old, I have to point out, may or may not be morally wrong, depending on the power issues involved. However, for the sake of argument let’s assume that 17 year old-13 year old relationships have innate power imbalances. At that point, yes, sex would be immoral, because there is an implicit coercion on the part of the older, more powerful member of the relationship - thus statutory rape.</p>

<p>Sex between two 13 year olds would not be immoral, because both are equally immature. Who is doing the coercing in that relationship? Is your position that they are raping each other, taking advantage of each other, and that each should be charged with rape? You’re going to have to clarify, because I see no absurdity in my position that as long as power imbalance does not occur in a relationship, then no matter how distasteful we find it, it is not wrong, while I see many absurdities and potentially ridiculous conclusions related to yours.</p>

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<p>How many 11-year-old girls are going to have sex with another 11-year-old? Obviously they want sex because they aren’t getting that feeling of affection at home, and they’re going to get it anywhere they can. My bet is that they’re most likely going to have sex with 16-17 year olds, because it makes them feel valued because an older boy likes them enough to have sex with them. In that case, yes, it is statuatory rape. Not to mention that if a girl starts having sex when she’s 11, she’s going to be seriously messed up by the time she’s 18.</p>

<p>Not to mention that in Maine, it’s illegal for two children under 12 to have sex. So the school is advocating something that, in some cases, is against Maine law.</p>

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<p>The school isn’t advocating that HGFM…there is a health center at the middle school…not the nurses office, but a medical facility… it is there because there are so many kids in poverty that need medical treatment so they located one at one of the 3 middle schools. This medical facility requires parental consent to be treated at this health center. </p>

<p>I do not know if it is illegal to have sex if you are under 12…BUT if it is, I am 100% confident that the center will not provide birth control to that child. There are however, kids who are 13 and 14 in middle school…as middle school includes 8th grade… at least in Maine. </p>

<p>This is NOT about handing out birth control to any kid in the school… this is about having it in a health center for those kids who request/need help in preventing a pregnancy. There is a lot of counseling and caring in action at this school and in this center.</p>

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<p>RE: Post #24 Cultural Differences --Girls in Africa having sex at age 9-11.</p>

<p>I lived in southern Africa, where I taught junior high for two years. It was my observation that many of my female students were raped by older boys/men. (They wouldn’t call it “rape,” but obviously 9-11 year olds aren’t having sex with 9-11 yo. boys; neither were the 13-14yo having sex with peers). What we would call rape is something these girls just accepted as part of being female. Although some girls would laugh about it, as an American with very different ideas of what constitutes acceptable male/female relationships, I found it very disturbing to see the girls “used” in this way–it angered me. They would go with older men that they didn’t want to be with, and they would not resist. They had no say, no power. Cultural difference–yes. One we want to accept and imitate? No way. Playful and fun? Not IMO–especially in a country that has one of the highest HIV/AIDS rates in the world.</p>

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<p>“This is cultural, as well.”</p>

<p>I don’t think whether something is cultural or biological matters as much as whether it is healthy in a cultural context. Yes, in some cultures, say Jews in Medieval Europe, it was common to marry off young, pubescent children, who would go live with their new spouse’s family (generally the girl’s family). But they were under the care of parents and/or in-laws who cared about them and believed they were doing what was best for them. That isn’t what we’re talking about here. Today, in this country, everyone who cares about young girls considers it a major problem if a 12-year-old girl is having sex, and the only ones who do it are those without real parents to love and guide them. That’s simply our culture, but it’s still a symptom of serious trouble when this cultural norm is violated.</p>

<p>Once my sister was providing services to a poor family that lived in the projects where there were tons of roaches. One of the children was very disturbed and kept eating the roaches. The pediatrician said it wasn’t physically dangerous to eat them, but physical safety really wasn’t our concern. In some countries roaches are eaten, but in our culture, roaches symbolize filth, and they are not food. The fact that a child is persistently violating that norm suggests that something is seriously wrong in the home.</p>

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<p>That was actually my point, Hannah–I just didn’t explain it. Very well said, though. </p>

<p>Atomom, my sister heard stories that are quite different than what you are saying. She first encountered this while working as a counselor at an HIV testing clinic (and then talking to her friends there about it), and then she returned to do formal, in depth interviews with people. There is, of course, a huge difference in culture between Kenya and some countries in southern Africa, so perhaps there is simply the common thread of early sexual experiences but the precise circumstances are different.</p>

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<p>I too believe that something is not right when 11-13 year olds are having sex. In any case, the school should not be handing out medication without parental consent.
For God’s sake, the school nurse will not even give your child Tylenol without WRITTEN consent from the parents. They would keep your child in the sick room until you pick them up or bring in Tylenol yourself.</p>

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<p>If the school in question is having serious issues with 11-year-olds’ pregnancies, maybe they can hand out condoms. I know that comdoms are not even close to the reliability of pills, but hey, the pill is a hormonal medication. Most doctors whp prescribe the pill have their patients come back regularly for check-ups, blood-work etc. Is the school taking on this responsibility?</p>

<p>They believe that an 11-year-old who is stupid enough to have sex, is smart enough to take the pill every day, at the same time. This same amazing 11-year-old will bring it to the attention of her loving parents when she has constant headaches, spotting, and other problems caused by the pill</p>

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<p>OTOH, since the pill is known to reduce sex drive, perhaps it will work in <em>THAT</em> way</p>

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<p>“Why is elementary school in the birth control business ?”</p>

<p>Because no one else is when it counts.</p>

<p>"Yes, in some cultures, say Jews in Medieval Europe, it was common to marry off young, pubescent children, who would go live with their new spouse’s family (generally the girl’s family). "</p>

<p>You missed it totally. 100 years ago in the United States, the median age for sexual maturity among women was 16; today it is 13. We are not talking about young children. It was not unusual for 16 and 17 year olds who were NOT yet sexually mature to be married off at that age. The impacts on these women was devastating, with vast portions of the female population becoming addicted to prescription opiates, originally taken to ease the pain. And NO, they didn’t move in with their in-laws, and they had little or no support from the community around them. </p>

<p>I don’t think it is a “good idea” for 11 or 13-year-olds to be sexually active, or for 15-year-olds to have babies. But they didn’t ask me, and, if they did, evidence is that my thinking doesn’t count for much anyway. And neither does that of anyone else on this list. I volunteer to show condoms to eight-year-olds anytime I’m asked. </p>

<p>As for maturity, school has infantilized our young people - and many of them (us) never grow up.</p>

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<p>Wait a second. I “missed it totally” because I contrasted the Maine situation to one culture (Medieval Jewry) and you want to compare it to another (the US 100 years ago)?</p>

<p>Are you saying that early-teens marriages didn’t occur among Medieval Jews, or that parents back then didn’t love and care for their teenagers, or what?</p>

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<p>Great point someone made about assuming that a teen having unprotected sex is going to be responsible enough to take the pill every day. I know too many “oops!” babies with “grown up” Moms to think that these 11 yr. olds will really follow through. At least give them the patch if they MUST.</p>

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<p>I’m voting for single sex schools. I find it very sad that junior high school kids are having sex. When? Where? Where are their parents or teachers or chaperones of some kind? If JH school kids are having sex, then some adult has abrogated all responsibility. Treating the symptom does not fix the problems.</p>

<p>mini, you equate physical maturity with emotional maturity and libido. I relate to fencersmother about how most 11-13 year old girls view boys – I really doubt that they are driven by their own sexual needs. I think girls who are involved in sexual activity early are likely to have been victims of some kind of abuse – THAT’s what should be dealt with.</p>

<p>Humans are not driven strictly by physical needs. Many people remain celibate for a variety of reasons. Just because one CAN have sex, doesn’t meant that one MUST have sex.</p>

<p>Junior high kids are kids. They should be having fun with same gender friends, playing sports, studying music or some other interest, camping with scouts or church groups, and doing chores or volunteering. They are not emotionally mature and should not be engaged in sexual activity, imo. Normalizing early sexuality in this way is not healthy, and I think it leads to bigger problems down the line.</p>

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<p>1of42: It is not all about power (who’s powering whom in your example of 17 year old having sex with a 13 year old). I think focusing on that one aspect of it is wrong. This is Maine, USA, not some tribe in East Africa where child bride is acceptable practice. In fact there is a law on Maine’s book, as HisGraceFillsMe pointed out, against children under 12 having sex. </p>

<p>I think liberal people have a tendency to take the contrarian views. The liberal position is a colorful and capricious one. Many choose that as their life motto no matter where real truth lies, and being right is square and out-of-date, so it seems.</p>

<p>You said >

</p>

<p>Would you let you own children read that ?</p>

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<p>When you inject the concept of “morality” into the discussion, you open the door to a Pandora’s box of ambiguities because of the subjective nature of the concept on a variety of levels when applied to issues of sexuality. More importantly, you loose sight of the real issues.</p>

<p>Two 13 year olds who of their own initiative discover sexuality and engage in non-coercive consensual sexual behavior are not behaving “immorally”. They are certainly acting imprudently and in a manner that can have serious consequences in terms of their psycho-emotional development, physical and emotional health and practical impact on their lives if a pregnancy were to occur. Sexual activity appropriate to older age groups certainly is not appropriate to “tweens” and young teens. But it’s not because of some subjective notion of “morality” but because of the very real objective and demonstrable consequences and risks presented to young kids and teens by such behaviors.</p>

<p>And the problem is, as soon as you start talking to kids about these issues in terms of “morality”, particularly with judgmental overtones, you loose them. Instead, parents need to have open, candid, fact based non-judgmental dialog with their kids about sexuality and the appropriateness or inappropriateness of sexual behavior at particular phases in their lives. This is where many, many parents fail. They are either uncomfortable, uninformed, embarrassed, oblivious or “too busy” with their own lives to take the time to have continuing dialog with their kids about this subject. They don’t communicate standards that are clearly defined, particularly ones based on rational objective criteria instead of emotional appeals to “morality”.</p>

<p>Our schools are then left with a no-win situation. Students often walk in the doors without the proper guidance and role models that they need to be successful citizens in our schools and communities. They are not getting what they need at home. Not only does this result in a load of issues impacting on the school day, but the schools then find themselves forced to expand their “educational mission” in order to address the health and well being of students and attempt to maintain some degree of order in the school environment. Schools are really not well suited for this “mission” but are forced to fill the breach. Then the schools get blasted for approaches that are either ill-conceived, not implemented well or which “offend” the community (filled with a bunch of parents who aren’t meeting their responsibilities to begin with).</p>

<p>Schools should not be in the business of dispensing birth control. Issues of sexuality and sexual conduct are best left to families. But if the families are not addressing these issues, if a student can not turn to a parent for guidance and help, unfortunately the school is the only setting in which there is sufficient regular contact and involvement in a kid’s life to catch those who are falling and on a path that could lead to serious problems. Don’t like that the school’s doing it, then do your job as a parent and it won’t be necessary.</p>

<p>And incidentally, the Federal HIPPA statute does NOT prohibit disclosure of medical records to parents. For any child under 18, the statute specifically provides that parents have the same right to obtain the records as the “patient”.</p>