<p>“Kids don’t always have to be taken from home, they should be told that.”</p>
<p>So we just tell them to rat on their parents, or the live-in uncle, knowing that they might not be taken out of that situation or, if they are, they are likely to be placed in a foster situation that might turn out worse. All the while denying the one thing that we do know could provide them some modicum of protection. </p>
<p>More elders would be great! If they existed, don’t you think they would have already have been used? How long did it take for the abuse by Catholic priests to be reported? And how many have been imprisoned as a result? </p>
<p>I’m not for the two-pronged approach either. Give the kids what they know they need, and ask for - birth control - and then maybe they’ll come forward and ask for something else. (whether we can actually deliver on it is another matter entirely.)</p>
<p>edvest, trust me when I say that we would all love a situation in which middle school children didn’t have any sex, where abused kids would report their abusers 100% of the time, and where birth control for kids that age wasn’t even something we’d have to think about. Unfortunately, that’s not the situation we’re in, nor is it one we’re likely to be able to achieve.</p>
<p>Given that, we can either be idealistic and not offer birth control, while counseling kids, and accept that a few kids will suffer for our principles, or we can be pragmatic and offer birth control if kids ask for it. I choose the latter.</p>
<p>“To provide BC in order make sexual abuse less messy for the victim to me is not a solution.”</p>
<p>You consider becoming pregnant with an abuser’s baby during middle school “messy”? I consider it “soul-altering trauma,” and “a reason to put the student on suicide watch.”</p>
<p>If a student comes in with chlamydia, should the clinic refuse to treat the infection? Penicillin will unquestionably make the abuse less messy for the victim, and perhaps facilitate its continuance. After all, it will teach the student that you can get chlamydia, but you just take this pill, and it goes away.</p>
<p>Maybe pregnancy/HIV is the right outcome for a 13-year-old who has failed to “learn how to protect” herself…after all, “there are ways to fend off the abusers”! (I’d really like to hear what those are, by the way. How does a middle schooler “fend off” her mother’s boyfriend who pays the rent?)</p>
<p>It’s too bad that the next generation hasn’t learned from our generation that “if it feels good, do it” isn’t always the best way to go. We seem to assume that kids have no self control. Why is that? Our parents generation practiced it. I know its a “different time” now, but I don’t think its better. Not by a long shot.</p>
<p>You are talking about child rape! The solution to help save the victims is not put them on BC and send them back to their abusers.</p>
<p>Mini, the situation where the victim is abused by her mother’s live-in boyfriend and the mother is turning a blind eye, the victim needs to be removed from home for her own safety. The situation I described where the victim stays home would be like if she is abused by an uncle and felt awkward or ashame to tell her parents. That’s the case where she should be encourage to overcome her fears and tell her parents. As usual, Mini seems to enjoy cheering people’s/our government’s misfortunes. Wonder how he got his job as a beauracrat in Washington state.</p>
<p>I just noticed dke’s statement about taking her kids out of public school over this issue. My kids went to private school through middle school, and let me tell you that by fourth grade they were so tired of hearing about sex they were all ready to become monks. (They didn’t, though.) Our private school was on them CONSTANTLY about sex ed, beginning in second grade. The rationale was that by puberty it was too late, too much noise in the conversation for teachers to have a real impact on behavior and attitudes.</p>
I started my period when I was eight. Many girls do when they are nine and ten. Add in that factor, and sex ed in lower elementary school–2nd, 3rd grade–doesn’t sound very unreasonable anymore.</p>
Mini, you seem to be suggesting that pregnancy is the worst thing that happens to these girls – that if schools just provide BC, then it’s not that bad. If, as 07DAD says, 2/3 of these kids are victims of abuse, then the ABUSE is the worst thing that happens. Preventing the most obvious indicator does not end the abuse.</p>
<p>If you really want to protect kids, then you should worry far more about teachers or other ministers than you should about Catholic Priests. All abuse is despicable, but most estimates are that less than 2% of priests have been accused, while 6%-10% of teachers are suspected and 4%+ of Protestant churches are involved.</p>
<p>The Catholic Church has been the target of a vicious campaign in the media. As a Catholic, I expect so much from the Church – the abuse that happened was absolutely unacceptable. But to keep harping on this issue, as if only Catholics ever sinned, is uninformed.</p>
<p>Thanks, sjmom.<br>
Any child abuse by anyone is not to be tolerated, but Catholic priests have been mentioned too many times in this thread–it sounds like someone has something personal against the Catholic church. </p>
<p>Obviously, more kids are spending a lot more time with teachers, family/household members, and Protestant ministers (since only 1/4 of Americans are Catholic), and other adults who volunteer to work with kids than they are with Catholic priests.</p>
<p>I’m still waiting to hear what these skills are that enable young women to “fend off” attackers and protect themselves. Seems like we could just teach those skills in first or second grade and then there wouldn’t be sexual abuse after that point. I’m interested to hear what they are.</p>
<p>Any child abuse by anyone is not to be tolerated, but Catholic priests have been mentioned too many times in this thread–it sounds like someone has something personal against the Catholic church. </p>
<p>Nothing against the Church, particularly. I was the one who reported the rate of abuse BY TEACHERS AND SCHOOL EMPLOYEES, thank you. But I ask again, of the 1.5% of Catholic priests who had charges made against them in the past, and the 2/3rds of priests who have charges pending against them, and with hundreds of millions of dollars paid out in claims in admission of guilt, how many went to prison? (quoting the Catholic League does not support your case, but it is not germane regardless.)</p>
<p>The point is that the criminal justice system, or the threat of the criminal justice system is no response to young people’s need and request for birth control - and it doesn’t matter whether the abuse is coming from priests, teachers, or Uncle Charlie.</p>
<p>"Mini, you seem to be suggesting that pregnancy is the worst thing that happens to these girls – that if schools just provide BC, then it’s not that bad. If, as 07DAD says, 2/3 of these kids are victims of abuse, then the ABUSE is the worst thing that happens. Preventing the most obvious indicator does not end the abuse.</p>
<p>Not suggesting that at all! I am suggesting that students are not seeking out counselors and school nurses now to report abuse - that is obviously clear. They MAY seek out school nurses for birth control, and when trust is gain, they may (or may not) decide it is time to report abuse. As I noted, I work in social services, and we are as guilty as everyone else. No one is protecting these kids. BC provides another entree, and, hopefully, a confidential one.</p>
<p>1o42, if you’d read my post carefully you’d see that I’m actually denigrated MY generation. (I’m 52) WE screwed up big time (IMHO) and I was hoping that we’d pass on what we learned from our mistakes on to our kids. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re doing that. Its almost like we’re perpetuating ourselves. (not good)</p>
<p>Genital herpes will be with the little girl for life. And, I imagine that sjmom2329 and edvest1 will not want her to have an abortion, so if she gets pregnant this girl will have a living daily reminder of the horror of her abuse. This is worse because it is the abuse and disease and/or an unwanted baby.</p>
<p>And, edvest1, you seem to think that it is fair to refuse BC so that this little girl, in the midst of her abuse, will “toughen up” and report the abuse. WHY? </p>
<p>Do you suggest that we, who supposedly want to help, in Sex “Education” stress to our daughters: "Listen, if you are being molested, it is up to you to report them. No excuses, because we WILL NOT get you birth control to guard against pregnancy and you will have to live with any child of this assault the rest of your life. And, the same for sexually transmitted diseases. No condoms for you to beg your father to use if he won’t stop his assaults. You’ll just have to be diseased the rest of your life. So, turn your daddy in and “WE CAN AND WILL PROTECT YOU.” </p>
<p>sjmom2329 and edvest1 are you proposing to take this diseased girl and her baby into your home a al a witness protection situation and provide a loving home for her? If not, in Sex Education do we be honest and tell her that she will be institutionalized through foster care since MOM obviously isn’t a fit parent since she did not avoid the assaults? Do we have girls who told and were disbelieved come talk about what happened to them afterwards to present an honest picture of “telling?” Since I believe there is an agenda other than truly just helping the girl, I doubt that this Sex Education would discloss those realities.</p>
<p>All forms of BC must be made available if she asks.</p>
<p>Well, since the change in policy pertains to providing birth control pills/patches, there’s no protection against herpes. By the way, I think it’s rather insensitive to refer to someone with herpes as “diseased.”</p>
<p>Your approach seems to be to leave 11 - 13 year old girls in homes where they are either neglected, unsupervised or sexually abused, and provide them with powerful hormones (impact on very young adolescents is unknown), and do nothing to stop the abuse. Doesn’t sound very helpful to these girls to me.</p>
<p>“if she gets pregnant this girl will have a living daily reminder of the horror of her abuse.”</p>
<p>“you will have to live with any child of this assault the rest of your life. . .”</p>
<p>“take this diseased girl and her baby into your home. . .”</p>
<p>Umm–have you never heard of. . . adoption? There are waiting lists for infants. A child conceived through rape or abuse is a human being, not a “daily reminder of the horror.” In spite of the circumstances of conception,
this baby could be a source of joy for adoptive parents. And knowing that could be a source of healing for the birth mother.</p>
The tendency of previous generations to say that younger generations are somehow inferior is huge.</p>