<p>My company is very cautious and has not routed us in his area since February. Though some foreign carriers continue to fly these routes, it should have been designated as a restricted area, and not allowed. That’s pretty obvious. It’s as if they don’t want to believer there are hostilities going on there.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-passenger-jet-shot-down-over-ukraine/[/url]”>http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-passenger-jet-shot-down-over-ukraine/</a></p>
<p>Did anybody watch World News Tonight? They showed somebody going through the debris and a bunch of passports that were there. That made no sense to me. If a plane crashes, do all the passports in pockets, bags, purses and briefcases jump out and gather in one place? And why, amid charred wreckage, were there a bunch of passports with no signs of damage?</p>
<p>And I don’t know why it’s bugging me, but why do they keep calling them souls? What’s wrong with “people”, or “passengers”?</p>
<p>Very descriptive article of scene:</p>
<p><a href=“Malaysia Airlines Plane Leaves Trail of Debris - The New York Times”>Malaysia Airlines Plane Leaves Trail of Debris - The New York Times;
<p>They are calling them souls because they are dead and thus they are no longer people or passengers. But, it bugs me too a little. That’s why, though. </p>
<p>WOW:</p>
<p>"23.29 Russian President Vladimir Putin has said Ukraine is ultimately responsible for the crash of a Malaysian airline carrying 298 people in the strife-torn east of the country.</p>
<p>"There is no doubt that the country on whose territory this terrible tragedy happened bears responsibility,” Putin was quoted by Ria Novosti news agency as saying.</p>
<p>“This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace in the country, if military operations had not resumed in the south-east of Ukraine.”</p>
<p>The Russian leader added that he had ordered military officials to “provide all aid needed to shed light on this criminal act.”
…"</p>
<p>Source: <a href=“http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html”>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html</a></p>
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Maybe not people, but even if deceased, they were still passengers on that flight. </p>
<p>“They are calling them souls because they are dead and thus they are no longer people or passengers. But, it bugs me too a little. That’s why, though.”</p>
<p>I doubt it. It’s standard aviation terminology. First thing they ask you when you declare an emergency, “How many souls on board?” Don’t know where that originated.</p>
<p>Very sad. prayers for all affected.</p>
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Nope. I don’t know the origin, but it has existed for centuries, and is a carryover from seafaring days.</p>
<p>In modern usage, as I understand it, the term is used to account for all living human beings on board. There may be human remains in the cargo hold and people/passengers is left open to interpretation. “Souls” accounts for revenue passengers, crew, infants-in-lap, jump seat occupying transiting pilot, etc.</p>
<p>I thought souls basically meant people dead or alive, although we don’t usually hear it unless there’s a tragedy. Passengers wouldn’t be everyone on board. </p>
<p>This is very bad.</p>
<p>skieurope is correct: it comes from the seafaring tradition. They would say that a ship sank with all souls aboard, for example.</p>
<p>Latest news: major AIDS researchers and WHO staff may have been on the plane.
<a href=“Crash claims top AIDS researchers heading to Melbourne”>Crash claims top AIDS researchers heading to Melbourne;
<p>“In modern usage, as I understand it, the term is used to account for all living human beings on board. There may be human remains in the cargo hold and people/passengers is left open to interpretation. “Souls” accounts for revenue passengers, crew, infants-in-lap, jump seat occupying transiting pilot, etc.”</p>
<p>Interesting. I’ve never heard it used when they were living. Thanks.</p>
<p>I took a quick look through the list of Russian surface-to-air missiles, in the assumption that any missile in that area would be Russian made. The ones with sufficient range are truck mounted big things with guidance systems. The small stuff, the shoulder or man held stuff, can’t get anywhere near that high. </p>
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<p>YES, YES, and YES! Did no one else think this was beyond bizarre?! A stack of PRISTINE passports which all happened to land in the same general area?! </p>
<p>Really, WTH?!?!!</p>
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<p>I read it was probably this one: <a href=“Buk missile system - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system</a> which the rebels claim to have captured a bit ago from Ukrainian forces.</p>
<p>If there was a group the leader could have had all the passports. When I took a group of Girl Scouts to Ghana I held all their passports so they didn’t get lost in transit. </p>
<p>Very tragic.
<a href=“http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=da7d2f5a9d64412cfa26b65b76d9ee80”>http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/delegates-to-melbourne-aids-summit-on-doomed-flight-mh17/story-e6frg6nf-1226993197572?nk=da7d2f5a9d64412cfa26b65b76d9ee80</a></p>
<p>Yes, EK, the scope of this tragedy is incomprehensible. Over 100 of those on board were researchers and medical workers, including Dr Joep Lange who is recognized as one of the world’s top AIDS researchers.</p>
<p>A little while ago, I mentioned to my S that what Putin has been doing recently seemed to follow what Hitler did prior to World War 2.</p>
<p>My S immediately went out and read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.</p>
<p>He said that the similarities are eerie - Hitler moving into the Sudetenland to protect ethnic Germans (like Putin moving into Crimea to protect ethnic Russians), Hitler staging an incident on the Polish border to justify his invasion (which it seemed Putin had been doing several months ago on the Ukraine border), Hitler blaming others for being the aggressors and blaming other for causing problems that he was actually instigating and causing, etc.</p>
<p>My S feels that Putin has studied how Hitler manipulated and controlled events prior to the start of World War 2 and was easily able to gain so much and is now just following that playbook.</p>