Yeah, I judge teenagers who throw up a Nazi salute.
It was put on the internet to begin with by the photographer. It only went viral recently.
Because a spur-of-the-moment Nazi is less dangerous than a premeditated Nazi?
I believe the photographer asked them to wave good-bye and I believe some of the boys used the opportunity to Nazi salute instead. The ones doing it are having a big laugh. One boy in the center of the photo has a big shocked expression, others are doing nothing.
The salutes and WP signs are not a mistake or a “boys will be boys” instance. They are 17-18 year old seniors, they know what they are doing, and are doing it intentionally. “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” The parents who feel differently have a lot of work to do with their sons.
I did think it was odd that the photographer posted the offensive photo on his website. Did he not have a traditional group shot photo, before asking them to wave? Why is he shock at the backlash?
“Because a spur-of-the-moment Nazi is less dangerous than a premeditated Nazi?”
No, but because it would help me to understand what the issue(s) were. Kids who would plan something like this in advance knowing what it means would need different teaching/punishment/handling than kids who understood what it meant but were pressed into it due to peer pressure or because an adult told them to and they didn’t know how to react in a public situation. All are caused by different things, so as a parent I’d want to know what issues I was dealing with so I could have the best chance of reaching and changing them.
And there is even the possibility that some of them didn’t know or understand (not likely but possible), which would mean a different issue altogether. The article linked in the OP mentioned that one kid is holding up the “OK” symbol which the article describes as being a White Nationalist signal. Maybe I’m an idiot who lives under a rock, but I had no idea the “OK” symbol was now a White Nationalist thing. I think I did the “OK” symbol in public a few weeks ago and now I’m wondering if the people around me thought it was a White Nationalist thing because I can assure you - it was not, just a clueless person trying to signal I heard and understood from a distance and didn’t want to yell back.
“I believe some of the boys used the opportunity to Nazi salute instead. The ones doing it are having a big laugh.”
So my earlier posts aren’t misunderstood, if as a parent I did some investigating and came to this conclusion I would not remotely defend my kid and the level of disappointment, the punishment rained down on him and future guidance pressed on him would be epic.
^ that
Depends on the context. In the context of 59 other people in the photo giving a Nazi salute, yes, the guy in the front is giving the white power sign.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-■■■■■
Kids can be forgiven for making momentary errors in judgment. Parents should have the maturity to know better than to assume that a momentary error defines the child’s character.
Are they ASKING for forgiveness? Atoning in some way? I hope they do.
But in general, I’m totally comfortable with this being a line not to be crossed.
Intimidating others, injuring others, making racist comments…all off limits and absolutely something that shows your character.
Can I also ask about the white power sign? I’ve never heard of it except very recently on this board. Is it a regional thing? That expression used to mean “A-OK”. When did that change, and is that widely known Now?
The one kid visibly uncomfortable in the photo had this to say.
“My name is Jordan Blue, I am the boy captured in the photo to the far right. The photo was taken during our Junior Prom Photos, I clearly am uncomfortable with what was happening. I couldn’t leave the photo as it was taken within 5 seconds. The photographer took the photos telling us to make the sign, I knew what my morals were and it was not to salute something I firmly didn’t believe in. I have attended BHS, these classmates have bullied me since entering middle school, I have struggled with it my entire life and nothing has changed. These are the boys of class of 2019, nothing has been done and my question is…[Will} anything ever be done? I truly & firmly believe we need to act to make a change to this horrible act. It needs to stop. Bullying. Immaturity. And just taking things as a “joke”…”
It sounds like they were quite aware of what they were doing.
This is definitely a “dim-wit” moment for these kids and if my daughter were participating in that Nazi salute, she would get her fair share of grounding. At the same time, no kid deserves to have their face smeared all over the news like that. I recommend calming down and evaluate some of the dim-witted dumbass things YOU did in high school. I’ve done worse.
Let this sink in. The young men in the photograph are the same age as some of the soldier in WWII, when the minimum age to enlist was 18. (The youngest serviceman was 12-year old Calvin Graham, who lied about his age and went on to earned a Bronze Star and Purple Heart.)
The adults involved in the lives of these young men have failed to reached their cores and the adults need to go back in. Hopefully the rot is not permanent.
OK, so if we do our research and believe that all these boys and the photographer knowingly and purposefully did something that’s racist, what’s the best course forward?
Do we handle it differently for the adult (photographer) and the minors? Do we think this is something society handles and how does it do so? Is it something the school handles and how does it do so? Is it something the parents handle and how do they do so?
Do we have to consider that certain reactions may make things worse (in the case of how you handle, punish, teach minors) or is it more important to signal how virtuous we are in our condemnation? (OK, that last one was a potshot. Not helpful. But also an example of how a point - even if it’s “true” can make things worse by causing people to harden their positions…)
I’ve read Jordan Blue’s statement - he was a student at the school, and is in the photo NOT giving “the sign” (his words). His statement is enough to make me say it wasn’t “wave goodbye to your parents” You can find the statement on Jules Suzdaltsev’ Twitter (and likely other places now). Jules wrote "I spoke with the only student who is visibly not comfortable with the “salute”
To me this shows how easily people can be swayed by group think. When I was younger I wondered how Hitler got so many to go along. Now I don’t.
I don’t believe my kids would have gone along. However this would be an educational opportunity for that group of boys. I’d be showing the boy in the striped pajamas, bringing in survivors and I’d be taking my kids to the holocaust museum.
Perhaps some of them thought it was an ironic joke, and I’ll give the benefit of the doubt. This to me is not time to wring hands but to educate.
That could explain why some of the boys made that gesture, not realizing in the moment what it looked like. It does not explain why the photographer put the photo up on his website. If you or I took a picture that was supposed to be boys waving bye-bye but actually looked like a meeting of Hitler Youth, we would be embarrassed and would delete it forthwith. Whatever the photographer said at the time, this is the photo he wanted to take.
Sorry, but I’ve never seen someone wave with their arms and hands stiffly held at a point. That explanation just doesn’t fly with me. Either the kids arranged it in advance (which from Jordan Blue’s statement doesn’t seem to be the case), the photographer told them to give a Nazi salute, or he modeled the “wave” he wanted them to give.
I’d recommend reading all of Jules Suzdaltsev’ Twitter feed (the pinned tweet and replies) to get a larger context about what is reportedly going on at this school. It’s hardly a one-off, it seems.
At a different school, this is from the article I linked:
There have been similar things happening at my kid’s school on a smaller scale. Anti-Semitism is on the rise, especially with young people. Calm down, though, I guess.