Managers to Millennials: Job interview no time to text

[GMTplus7]

<p>I wish Millenials would get a clue about what is appropriate attire to wear to the office or to the White House to meet the POTUS. It does not include flip-flops.
[White</a> House footwear kerfuffle - US news | NBC News](<a href=“White House footwear fans flip-flop kerfuffle”>White House footwear fans flip-flop kerfuffle)</p>

<p>Heck, the lacrosse players look proper compared to what I see in my office nowadays…</p>

[bucasmom]

<p>DS is in a pre-professional program at the state U. First semester freshman year included a mandatory once a week class on etiquette, dressing professionally, ethics, and self-presentation. They learn little things like “wear a watch so you don’t need your phone to tell the time at business or social events”. He learned the difference between business casual and interview mode (he then asked for a topcoat for Christmas). They even taught him to automatically place his napkin in his lap before needing it (I’ve been trying to teach his Dad and him that for years!).
Once a semester, the U offers an etiquette banquet with a speaker on that subject. The training seems to be out there. I think it’s a matter of taking advantage of it.</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>

1. The environment pre judges the young as lazy, Internet-obsessed.
2. They are pre-judged as unprepared for the workplace.

If they dont present their experience as it relates to the job, what would * you * call it?

3. They are squeezed out in favor of illegal immigrants and now, retired old people.

If an immigrant has a work permit & is the best candidate , should the employer have to pass him up?
Do you think those who have retired * want* to work at an entry level type job?

4. They are coddled by parents and given too much.

Cant argue with you there.</p>

<p>

5. They are forced into a system with adult rules which excludes them from many entry level jobs (min wages too high, expensive job training, over time rules, etc.). It makes them too expensive and not worth it to hire).

</p>

<p>You think min wages are too high? Don’t these adults deserve to earn enough to not depend on food stamps?
Yes, sometimes college/job training is expensive, even if you took advantage of your high schools educational offerings, and you need to take advantage of the opportunities to build a network while you are in training/ college instead of expecting employers will line up at your door after graduation.</p>

<p>

6. They are forced to apply online, never seen or spoken with a manager, they never get to disprove any of the prejudices against them.

I think pretty much every job has an online application process now.</p>

<p>I was going to continue point by point, but when someone is convinced they are a victim, they arent looking for solutions.
Kids can begin volunteering when they are still in grade school. It builds responsibility and references as well as giving them reasonable expectations of a paying job.
Job creation is slow, many of the entry level manufacturing jobs are now of course overseas although some companies are bringing work back to the US.
[Apple</a> and the Trend of Reshoring Manufacturing Jobs | MIT Technology Review](<a href=“http://www.technologyreview.com/news/509326/made-in-america-again/]Apple”>http://www.technologyreview.com/news/509326/made-in-america-again/)</p>

[marbling]

<p>A 20-something year old relative has a criminal justice degree and is working as a probation officer.</p>

<p>His mom was lamenting his career opportunities: “He’s loved trains since he was a boy, and all he ever wanted to do was be an engineer. He applied to the railroad, made several interview cuts, but wasn’t hired because he’s overqualified.”</p>

<p>Trying to be polite, I enthused, “Well, maybe he can try again!”</p>

<p>Mom replied, “Oh no, he could never face another disappoint like this.”</p>

<p>Ooookay then. Perhaps he should have considered this before he went to college . . .</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

4. Do not have pictures taken with protesters (for or against your company, your industry). If you do, make sure it is not on the front page.

</p>

<p>This would pose a problem for many folks at colleges like my LAC where students are politically active and feel it is a part of their civic duty as good citizens to protest things they are disagreeing with or attend political demonstrations in support of political issues they support. </p>

<p>I am also uncomfortable with the idea employers* feel entitled to make employment contingent on avoiding the exercising of one’s constitutional rights to fully participate in the civic and political processes of our society…including political protests. </p>

<p>That, my friends, is the road to pre-modern feudalism. While I may not personally participate in political protests, I fully support the rights of others to do so as someone who believes in the words and spirit of the constitution…especially when it occurs outside the workplace on the employee’s own time. </p>

<ul>
<li>Only legit exceptions in my book are political and religious groups and organizations. Even here, there’s more recent court challenges on gender/sexual orientation grounds.</li>
</ul>

[crankyoldman]

<p>There is no little irony that these managers, who were probably part of what was called the “slacker” generation, are complaining about the new generation’s manners. When I applied for jobs back in the antidiluvian days, looking for a job was two-way process. I was expected to look the part and act the part; the employer, on the other hand, was expected to inteview in good faith and if that employer decided it didn’t need me, it would send me a written rejection. I’ve got two college age kids who have applied for numerous jobs; their applications seem to have disappeared into that internet “cloud” I hear so much about. No response-not letter, not email-nothing-and this after an interview. So while some applicants need to learn how to interview(it’s a great idea to offer students a chance to practice things like that before heading out to an actual job interview), many employers are also showing less than dignified(rude?) behavior in not closing the loop. Do these managers notify all applicants of the company’s decision? They ought to and many don’t. So even assuming that these stories aren’t the stuff of Urban Legend(really-a cat at an interview?), let’s remember that many companies no longer uphold their end of the interview process. What example does that set for the applicants?
And the current generation is always less polite, less skilled, and less “serious” than the proceeding generation. As it always was, so it will always be.
And in words of Bye Bye Birdie-“Why can’t they be like we were, perfect in every way? What’s the matter with kids these days?”</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

've got two college age kids who have applied for numerous jobs; their applications seem to have disappeared into that internet “cloud” I hear so much about. No response-not letter, not email-nothing-and this after an interview. So while some applicants need to learn how to interview(it’s a great idea to offer students a chance to practice things like that before heading out to an actual job interview), many employers are also showing less than dignified(rude?) behavior in not closing the loop. Do these managers notify all applicants of the company’s decision? They ought to and many don’t.

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the phenomenon your college kids are experiencing isn’t a new one. My college classmates and I experienced the same things right after our graduation 14+ years ago. </p>

<p>One case which really stood out for me, an elite u employer waited six months after I submitted my application for an IT support position before sending me a postcard notification for an interview. At that point, I already had been working for six months at a better paying job with more responsibilities.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

My S works so hard, is honest, humble and talented but he is not perfect. He didn’t go to every employer in the best clothes or always say the right thing. He was looking for his first job so of course he was going to make mistakes and learn as he went along.

</p>

<p>I doubt any employer expects “perfect.” But with the number of jobs available vs. the number of candidates applying, of course they are going to select the candidate who seems to be the most promising. If they have a candidate who is just as bright and qualified as your son, but DOES show up to the interview appropriately dressed and is articulate and well spoken, why WOULDN’T they hire him instead, and why does this inspire such frustration for you? I say kudos to you for not doing his science projects for him, for not “coddling him.” Long term, this will serve him well. I’m not sure why you feel like the “stupid parent” for not coddling him and how this relates to your frustration regarding his job search. IMO it would not be coddling to advise him in advance of his job search about proper interview attire or to perhaps role play about how to present himself well during an interview. </p>

<p>

9. Employers with a 1970s or 80s or 90s mindset that don’t understand today’s young people. They just don’t get each other. Employers use technology all wrong (relying either too much or too little on it), demand experience for entry level jobs (oxymoronic), expect kids to jump up and down with excitement at the prospect of working while their friends are going to movies and beach parties, expect obedience to authority figures when few kids held to that standard by schools and parents, expect kids to know without being taught.

</p>

<p>If I’m hiring and I have multiple candidates applying, many of whom DO show enthusiasm for the opportunity to work and make money and who DO show respect for authority, I’m thinking it’s not my problem if the rest are resentful of having to work vs. going to the beach. And for darn sure I’m avoiding any candidate who makes it obvious that neither his parents nor his school have taught him respect for authority. Why wouldn’t I, and just what is it about that that needs to be fixed? Call me confused by some of your points.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>My kids love to work, love their jobs. They always have, no matter what job. I don’t know why, but they love to work and be busy.</p>

<p>They also really love their time off.</p>

<p>But, if an employer is looking for someone who is enthusiastic and well spoken and able to focus on the conversation? I think they can find some candidates. JMO</p>

[LoremIpsum]

<p>

While I may not personally participate in political protests, I fully support the rights of others to do so as someone who believes in the words and spirit of the constitution…especially when it occurs outside the workplace on the employee’s own time.

</p>

<p>I fully agree, cobrat! However, there is a positive filtering process going on here: would any politically-active person be happy at a company that feels it has the right to control their employee’s off-hours? Better to not get the job and continue interviewing than end up at a place where you are miserable!</p>

[cbrand]

<p>

She would be required to do job training 2 weeks before start of camp, without pay.

</p>

<p>I don’t know if this has been addressed, but unpaid “training”, when the training directly benefits the employer, is illegal. Laws differ by state and some states allow an employer to pay a percentage of full compensation during the training period, but if you work, you are entitled to get paid. </p>

<p>I see more and more employers scamming their employees this way. My own daughter worked a 10 hour, unpaid shift as a back-waiter at a restaurant. This time was supposedly a working interview and training. (You need to see her work for 10 hours before you decide to hire her?) She did not understand that she would not be paid for this time this until the shift was over. She didn’t make a stink about it because she needed the job.</p>

[Massmomm]

<p>I seriously wonder what planet these kids are from. My 17 year old is graduating from high school in a few weeks, and she knows how to behave in an interview. (She has had several, for internships and jobs.) So do most of her classmates, from what I’ve observed of their behavior.</p>

<p>I find it very hard to believe this is a common problem, although it certainly makes for entertaining reading.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>Yeah, I think you’re probably right, Massmomm. I just read that article to my daughter and she said she highly doubted many college graduates were doing these things, that nobody she knew would bring a parent, a pet, or even a phone that was still turned on into the interview. </p>

<p>“The three P’s.”</p>

<p>LOL.</p>

[Vladenschlutte]

<p>“I once interviewed someone for a job and they did something really stupid.”</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

I fully agree, cobrat! However, there is a positive filtering process here: would any politically-active person be happy at a company that feels it has the right to control their employee’s off-hours? Better to not get the job and continue interviewing than end up at a place where you are miserable!

</p>

<p>And sometimes, people need a job to sustain themselves…especially in the post-2008 economy. And that fact shouldn’t give employers the right to treat them as quasi feudal serfs when it comes to their off-hours activities…especially ones which are part of the cornerstone of our basic constitutional rights as Americans.</p>

[sally305]

<p>

Another no no is to inform the interviewer that you need two weeks off a month after your start date for a planned vacation and that you cannot work between Christmas and New Years because you like to spend the time with your family.

</p>

<p>I am not sure the first part of this is a no-no. Start dates are always negotiable. If the applicant has had a trip planned that would be costly to cancel or result in him/her missing some long-planned event like a wedding, I think most interviewers would understand. However, I think the timing of this conversation is key–better to have the offer extended first.</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>

I fully agree, cobrat! However, there is a positive filtering process here: would any politically-active person be happy at a company that feels it has the right to control their employee’s off-hours? Better to not get the job and continue interviewing than end up at a place where you are miserable!

</p>

<p>I fully agree with this. </p>

<p>I really, really can’t get over the cat thing. The other stuff I can almost rationalize. But bringing your cat?! (Then again, it was a bloodbath trying to get my cat in to the carrier so I’d never do that unless it was an absolute last resort…)</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

I really, really can’t get over the cat thing. The other stuff I can almost rationalize. But bringing your cat?! (Then again, it was a bloodbath trying to get my cat in to the carrier so I’d never do that unless it was an absolute last resort…)

</p>

<p>Maybe it was Morris. It’s not exactly easy to get a reference from such a finicky snooty feline:</p>

<p>[9-Lives</a> Morris at the Tea Party - 1972 - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqYGnte2y_w]9-Lives”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqYGnte2y_w)</p>

<p>:D</p>

[hops_scout]

<p>On one of my interviews I think I turned my phone on once during an 8-hour interview session. On an internship interview, I actually had to go out and get my phone from my truck to get a number for the interviewer. On my last onsite interview, I didn’t even taken my phone in with me. Left it in the truck and had VMs for me when I finally got done…</p>

[Joblue]

<p>

I am also uncomfortable with the idea employers* feel entitled to make employment contingent on avoiding the exercising of one’s constitutional rights to fully participate in the civic and political processes of our society…including political protests.

</p>

<p>The thing is, you will never know that the reason you didn’t get the job is because you are appearing in pictures of political protests because employers never tell you the reason(s) for hiring someone else. You also have a constitutional right to appear in drunken Facebook photos, taken at a party but that doesn’t mean that they can’t work against you when applying for jobs.</p>

<p>There are lots of things we have every legal right to do but that doesn’t mean that they are free of consequenses in the workplace.</p>