Masters or more breadth in undergrad premed?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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Graduate degrees are not considered when making med school admission decisions. Grad GPA is reported, but only the undergrad GPA is looked at. (Exception: SMP grad GPAs are considered.)

Major, minors, double degrees, graduate degree–none of this matters for med school admissions and do NOT help you stand out from the pack.

Unless you have something truly exceptional on your application–Rhodes Scholar, Olympic or professional athlete, a musical debut at the Met, founder of a major ongoing international non-profit, elected to major political office (city mayor, state legislature, etc), first author publication in Nature or Cell----you’re pack fodder. A run-of-the-mill applicant. Adding minors, majors, second majors, master’s degrees isn’t going to change that. The only conceivable boost that you might get from adding more academic stuff to to your CV is that it may make you more employable should you not get into med school.

I’m a little concerned because at Alabama a 90-93 is a 3.67, not a 4.0, so I could have “straight As” and still have a 3.75 gpa

AMCAS will recalculate your GPA once you submit your transcript…

Here’s AMCAS official Grade Conversion Guide

There’s no meaningful difference whether you have 42 As on your transcript or 13 A, 13 A-, 10 B+ and 7 B. So long as your GPA meets the cut off of the individual school, your application will get reviewed. Heck, your application can reviewed even if you have half a dozen Fs on your transcript so long as your GPA meets the cut off for the school.

Admission to med school is holistic–meaning your GPA only gets you so far and no farther. You only need to make the cut-off threshold for the particular school.

RE: academic scholarships are rare for med school. Med schools offer mostly need based aid with most grant-based aid going to truly needy students.

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@elise123

One question on every med school secondary application is “What will you contribute to the diversity of the class?”

Most people assume this a coded question about race/ethnicity, but it isn’t. It’s sincerely asking you what is special and unique about you and your lived experience.

Use your time in undergrad not to rack up the biggest list of ECs or the most As, but use the time to grow as human being and gain deeper understanding of yourself. Think about what different point of view you can bring to your class discussions about ethics, medical care, daily living experiences.

Since you have plenty of space in your schedule, consider taking taking some classes just for the fun of it. (You won’t have time for fun classes in med school or during residency.) Consider taking some classes that take outside your comfort zone (maybe class in ethnic studies, an in-depth literature class, or philosophy or a class about religions that are not yours)

As a physician you need to be able to relate to a very wide range of people who have had very, very different life experiences from your own. What have you done to open yourself to hearing other people’s voices and concerns?

This is what you should be using your time in undergrad for–for self-reflection, personal growth and learning to understand and appreciate others who are different from yourself.

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Do any medical schools publish their cutoff GPAs (or MCAT scores) so that potential applicants below the cutoff do not bother applying?

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@ucbalumnus the student would need to know how their GPA is recalculated. I doubt this is common knowledge.

Otherwise, the student might not apply to an MD or DO school where they could very well be considered.

@WayOutWestMom

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No. It’s proprietary and it may change from year to year.

For MD schools, it generally assumed to be in the 3.0-3.2 range.

Schools don’t necessarily want to screen out non-traditional applicants who may have had a bumpy start to college.

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Maybe not that common knowledge, but it is not like it is hidden, given that it is readily available: https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7761/download

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Oh okay, good to know!

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@elise123, it sounds like you’re off to a great start at Alabama! You’re in a sorority and going to football games and have a lot of ECs already.

You’re doing more than enough. As others have said, relax, slow down, and make sure you’re enjoying yourself!

When I entered college, I had something like 54 credit hours (and 120 would get a degree). Had I chosen to, I could have finished college in two years. Instead, I spent a full four years there, often overloading on classes. Why? College was so much fun! In addition to the fun to be had outside of classes, there were so many different classes in different subjects that sounded interesting, and this was my chance to take them!

I also went down the path of multiple majors/minors/certificates and it is one of my regrets to this day. Even though I fulfilled the requirements for two majors (in different colleges), two different certificates, and a minor, my college diploma doesn’t even list my first major. It just says Bachelor of Arts with Distinction and General Honors Program Completed. None of the rest! I think my transcript might only show my first major, if that. But guess what. Even if my diploma and transcript said all my majors/certificates/minors, nobody cares. Not my grad schools, not my employers, nobody. So on my resume, the only thing I list is my first major.

So although I did take a number of interesting classes that had nothing to do with any of my majors/certificates/minor, I would have had even more had I not fallen down that rabbit hole. I did like my majors/certificates, but for each one there were a few classes that I only took because I was going for that certificate. And instead I could have been taking a different class that I was more interested in.

So, don’t be me. Don’t pigeonhole yourself into one thing (I’m premed and am doing everything on the checklist). Go on ahead and take your premed classes, but dabble and explore. This is your best chance to become knowledgeable about a variety of topics. After college, you will not be getting a well-rounded education; it will be very specialized. And though you can certainly read up on subjects in your spare time, rarely will you have an environment with other inquisitive individuals who are willing to explore and delve into discussions on these topics. Take advantage of it while you can, and enjoy your time in college.

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If med school is the goal, I’d hazard to give some specific advice. My opinion would be that getting a masters degree (with the more difficult course load that would entail) would be at best of incremental benefit; if the more difficult graduate level courses hit your GPA, the net would be negative.

As others have said, med schools are much like selective colleges in that they proactively seek some sort of diversity. The scientific basis for that effort on the part of medical schools is in part that studies have repeatedly shown differences in care provided between physicians of the same demographic as their patient and physicians of unmatched demographics. The reasons for this and whether it is good / bad is well beyond the conversation here, but there are solid reasons for our supply of doctors to look a lot like our population - and also be very smart.

In this light, showing your unique stripes in other ways would be more advantageous. Lean into your identity - whether that’s EC’s, volunteering, personal qualities - and show that you’re interesting and would be a great ambassador / representative of those qualities. Not just another kid that got a good grade in orgo and aced the MCAT.

As far as the course work, a commitment to research to the extent of publication will probably be more interesting to research university medical programs than a master’s. Depending on your area, qualities and connections, freshman year is no longer too early to start sending out letters, looking for fellowships, figuring out your summer plans or a project that you can continue during the year. Now is not too soon to start looking for Summer 2025.

Lastly, and at the risk of sounding cliche or soft, college is really one of the only times (until you attend talks on the cruise ship after retirement) where you can learn about a variety of subjects from professors who are truly dedicated and passionate about them. Most medical students are PTSD about orgo. Their favorite class was their lit seminar on Elizabeth Bishop. Med school is at its heart a pre-professional / occupational program like training to be a plumber or electrician. I’d recommend you take some cool classes and look for research.

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Depending on your interests, research (if you decide to do it) does not have to be biology or medical related. At my daughter’s university we were told about a medical student who did religious studies research during undergrad….and that research was a topic of conversation during med school interviews.

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I had dinner with my med school prof cousin tonight. She was on an admissions committee in MN. She said - doing something where you give back - like Teach for America - is a home run during the in between years. You are dealing with the less fortunate - and have to be empathetic, a great listener, and bridge cultural gaps.

That said, you just started college and there’s a long long long way to go - and I think you should enjoy college.

Have fun.

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My D did TFA. There were things she liked and found rewarding, she learned a lot and developed many transferable skills…but…there were also many situations that were quite difficult…and some do not complete the 2 years.

TFA is not for everybody….but neither is med school.

I mentioned earlier that it is not uncommon to enter med school and other prof/grad programs with a masters. I was alluding to TFA (they pay for most of your masters in certain states, and you work while completing the degree). It is not the degree that matters (it doesn’t matter) but rather …the experience you have/skills learned while working.

@elise123 you have a long road ahead. Take time to smell the roses on the journey.

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Once you enter med school, your time to do anything other than medicine will become more and more limited. Use this time now for general classes that will broaden your education and enrich your life. Art, music, literature, history - the classes that will enable you to better understand museums, concerts, travel, and the world, throughout your life.

Also, get involved in research. The schools you are talking about want to see this. Clinical hours. Volunteer hours. Assembling the record you need for successful applications takes time and planning.

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This can be a double edged sword.

Research–whether it’s in some biologic topic or, as in your example, religion–needs to follow the scientific method

It can’t be a research paper type research where you simply gather information from a variety of sources to support an idea/argument. Research needs to have a testable hypothesis and rely upon experimental results for its conclusions.

The anecdote you cite is merely interviewer latching on to something in an applicant’s background to use as a starting point for a conversation. (This is also usually true for scientific research also. It’s merely a way to open conversation–unless it’s a topic the interviewer already has special interest in .)

My daughter did medium energy particle physics research in undergrad which employed the scientific method – not a single interviewer ever brought up her research background during med school or residency interviews. She theorized it was because her research topic was outside their realm of knowledge and they didn’t feel comfortable discussing it.

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It’s too early to contemplate this…but Peace Corps services is also viewed well. 12 years after completing their PC assignment, this is still asked about and discussed at every interview this young person has had.

But really…right now…try to enjoy undergrad. Do as @parentologist suggests…take some fun courses that you think you might enjoy. And go to concerts, museums, sporting events, and social events. If you get to medical school…you will have precious little time for anything but…studying.

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Yeah I’m trying to decide what to do about taking fun classes. I love astronomy and think quantum physics is so interesting. But I fought for my A in AP physics C, so I’m nervous to take unnecessary physics classes and risk lowering my gpa. But I’ll never have another chance to really learn about this stuff. I’ll talk to my guidance counselor soon so I’ll ask her. Normally premeds take physics junior year but I’d take it next semester or sophomore year instead if I want to take more physics classes

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Maybe it becomes a minor.

Academically take what you want I believe

There’s lots of medical careers doctor or otherwise. If it’s meant to be it will happen. If not it won’t.

You should check with the McCullough advisors. Maybe there’s a transfer in path.

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My D1 and SIL both studied physics. (D1 ended physics after her BS and went to med school. SIL has a PhD in theoretical quantum physics and is professor of physics at major state university where he heads a physics research institute in his specialty.) My DH also had a PhD in physics, but in solid state/condensed matter physics. He spent his entire career doing basic research in physics at a federal National Research Lab.

You need math before you can study physics. Calc 1 at the very least, but Calc 2, 3 and linear algebra are also useful. maybe even necessary for quantum and other UL physics classes

If you can handle the math, once you get passed the first 3 semesters of intro physics–(physics requires an additional semester of intro physics for modern and quantum physics.), physics is pretty straight forward–and in many way easier than Ochem. (Ochem makes a whole lot more sense once you understand quantum mechanics since quantum actually explains why certain chemical reactions happen. Friend of mine who has a PhD in organic chem says quantum ought to be a pre-req for ochem.)

You don’t have to risk hurting your GPA on physics. Except for the 2 required semesters for pre-meds, you can take courses p/f or as an audit. But if you audit, you really need to commit to doing the homework so you understand what’s going on in class.

BTW, Astonomy is a separate discipline from physics. (And every astronomer will tell you that!) Astrophysics is a hybrid–and incredibly math intensive.

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RE: fun class

Look into an intro astronomy class for non-majors. (Often it has some cutesy name like astronomy for star gazers or similar). I took one in college and enjoyed it. It was mostly math-free and didn’t require any additional science/physics background.

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