Yes, and I’m also trying to decide which of the two schools, Grinnell or Oberlin, to apply to as my ED 1 choice.
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Yes, well, Oberlin is slightly unaffordable, but we can still manage it since it’s about $3,000–$6,000 more than my family’s budget. I haven’t received a quote from Grinnell, however.
So, would you suggest Grinnell over Oberlin, then? I forgot to mention that I would be doing Math + Linguistics at both, with Linguistics being a concentration.
Unfortunately, that wouldn’t be feasible unless I somehow manage to transfer, as it’s far too late to be recruited there.
Grinnell is significantly wealthier than Oberlin. In fact, it’s one of the wealthiest colleges in the United States. This usually translates to better grants and opportunities and more generous financial aid. Just because both schools “meet-need” it does not mean they define need the same way.
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I have not been to Oberlin, but my first daughter evaluated Grinell and one of her best friends is there now. It is an appealing compact town around the college, and it has a nice, new humanities building. The school is very progressive, and quite active with student organizations. The undergraduate education appears to be very good with significant options beyond undergraduate with top placement to Med/Law/PhD programs.
So, would Grinnell likely be cheaper?
So academically, I would personally choose Grinnell for the reasons I gave before. Concentrations are a bit of a funny thing at Grinnell–they are often (as in this case) more than a minor, but not quite a major, but maybe closest to what is sometimes called a secondary major at other colleges (a type of major you cannot do as a primary major).
The tricky bit now is my original impression is you knew you could afford both Oberlin and Grinnell. It sounds now like you are not sure you can afford Oberlin, and simply don’t know about Grinnell.
It is true Grinnell is a generally wealthier college than Oberlin, but it actually has about the same reported budget for International aid–$12.3M versus $12.4M for Oberlin. However, Grinnell apparently does not spread it around quite as much as Oberlin, so reported a $56130 average versus the $44332 average at Oberlin.
So you could speculate that maybe Grinnell would be more generous . . . but you don’t actually know. Indeed, that average award is still too low for you.
So I don’t know if you have tried, but if at all possible I would get an actual aid estimate from Grinnell. If it actually came in as bad or worse as Oberlin, then you have some tough decisions to make.
If you can’t get an estimate–well, since Oberlin was not really affordable, and they said it was OK if you applied RD, I’d probably start with ED1 at Grinnell. And hopefully it will be enough, or you can negotiate to enough. If not, though, you may need to ask to be released from your ED commitment.
Anyway, that’s what I would do–try to get a financial aid estimate from Grinnell first before deciding.
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Oh, and you don’t really need an RD strategy yet since those deadlines are in the future.
But off that list of colleges that might have the aid you need, ones with a robust Linguistics major include Haverford, Duke, Dartmouth, Georgetown, Cornell, Stanford, Harvard, Pomona, and Yale. I’d probably also look at Macalester (if you have not already).
No easy admits but it is what it is when you are a high-need International. And again, by far your best chance of actually getting admitted will be at the colleges recruiting you. These backup plans are much, much less likely to work.
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Ask both coaches if they will do financial aid pre-reads and give you an estimate of what your FA package will be.
Oberlin will be much easier for you to get to than Grinnell…how important a factor that is unique to you.
Kinda against the gun here for that.
I think on the surface Grinnell is a harder admit, but neither school is need blind for internationals, so Oberlin’s less advantageous financial situation might even chances out. All things equal I think ED1 at Grinnell and ED2 at Oberlin makes more sense.
FWIW the pool facilities at Grinnell are top notch and the new coach is promising.
OP, as an international student, don’t forget to compare ease of coming and going, as well as school policy/dorm closures during breaks. These things are often overlooked but can have quite an impact on the actual cost of attendance.
Keyword “likely,” but IMO it is extremely unlikely the FA at Oberlin will be better than at Grinnell.
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Just for “fun”, I tried finding flights for a hypothetical Winter break leaving for Mumbai on Friday 12/13, coming back Monday 12/30.
So first–yikes, those prices.
Second, whether you used Des Moines or Cleveland, there were plenty of two-stop flights, and no one-stop flights. Prices were very similar although the few cheapest flights were using Des Moines (but only about $80 cheaper). And actually, the cheapest flight I found was using Cedar Rapids. But Grinnell runs shuttles to Des Moines at the beginning and end of the year and for breaks, so that is probably cheaper overall.
Grinnell also offers break but not beginning/end of the year shuttles to Chicago. And actually that meant you could get 1-stop flights for a lot less. Also actually has direct flights to New Delhi. Might be worth checking out.
I believe Oberlin only runs shuttles to Cleveland.
Anyway, interesting to check out. Off hand it looks like it might not be much different, although if you could ever use that Chicago option, that could help at Grinnell.
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Good research, adding some detail:
Shuttles to/from Grinnell and Des Moines airport: 1 hr, from Chicago (ORD) 4-5 hours (highly variable).
Oberlin Shuttles (3rd party provider/can be unreliable and/or inconvenient) or uber to/from Cleveland airport to Oberlin: 25-30 mins. Can be difficult to get uber from Oberlin to airport, there are several highly reliable people in town who provide driving service (as their business).
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I just submitted an application to Macalester. Wouldn’t my GPA disqualify me from many of the schools mentioned, especially as an international student?
That’s honestly another concern I have, but I think flights to both colleges would be manageable financially. Since I don’t live in either Delhi or Mumbai, I might need to travel to one of those cities first before flying to the US.
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Regarding the aid estimate, I don’t think the same would be possible at Grinnell. I’ve read that Grinnell’s aid is generally quite generous. The coach also sent my financial aid data along with my pre-read to the financial aid department, and since the pre-read was overwhelmingly positive, I assume they’ll be willing to meet my aid needs. However, there’s still some uncertainty with the process, unlike Oberlin, which provided a quote as part of their policy. Prospective ED applicants can request a quote prior to applying, although I don’t think they would have emailed me back if the coach hadn’t intervened and provided the contact information for the right person to ask.
Given all this, what would you say is the best course of action for me? I have about 15 days to decide, so there’s no rush, especially since I’m not applying ED anywhere else. As an international student requiring substantial aid, I need every advantage I can get—and if being a recruited athlete is one of them, so be it.
Unrelated question: what would Grinnell’s (or Oberlin’s) reputation be in the US? Since they’re both Midwestern LACs, I doubt many would know of them outside the region. Also, this might be a bit silly, but how would each be perceived compared to research universities? What would their peer institutions be?
From what you wrote. Grinnell is without loans. Oberlin gives you a loan (this is very strange to me. I haven’t heard about loans for international since loan should be guaranteed by smth…).
Again since Grinnell is only ED1 or Ed2 and Oberlin can be Ed2 or even RD, I personally would do ED1 at Grinnell and ED2 at Oberlin.
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These are the schools Grinnell considers peers: Grinnell Peer Schools | Grinnell College
Grinnell is a very highly regarded LAC in the US.
I agree with the others to ED1 at Grinnell and ED2 at Oberlin if necessary.
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Grades are evaluated in context so it is always hard to be definitive about what you will need to be competitive as an unhooked applicant. But to be very blunt, if you need something like a $75k+ offer, very few colleges appear to have them at all. And so an unhooked International applicant may not get any such offers if they are not extremely competitive.
So I don’t want to be alarmist, but this is why in my view, you need to do everything you can to see if you can make it work at Grinnell or Oberlin. Because while you can still try in RD if they don’t work out, at that point it is going to become very possible there will be no offer of the kind you need available to you anywhere in the US.
If you can’t get a number from Grinnell, I would suggest just trying ED1 there. I do think it is a good bet they will be more generous than Oberlin, and Oberlin was close. And for the reasons above, I do not think you can afford to give up your best chance at getting admitted as a recruited athlete.
So this is a complicated question, because lots of people in the US don’t really know about LACs to begin with, not even the most famous ones. However, usually people who actually matter, like the people choosing applicants for competitive grad programs, entry-level jobs, and so on, either do know about them, or are open to learning. And then an actual alums of LACs tend to be fiercely loyal, and on top of that may also look out a bit for other LAC grads too.
Oberlin in particular has long been one of the top LACs in the US. I always think this is a fun source to check out–it is from Life Magazine in 1960, and gives you an idea of what people then thought were the top colleges (for men) at the time. Oberlin is definitely one of them:
Grinnell is on there too, but was not as prominent as Oberlin back then. This has changed, not least because Grinnell has had very good financial fortunes and now is one of the wealthiest institutions per capita in the US system. Among other things, they have been using that wealth to improve facilities, attract good faculty, and attract good students (you could be one of them!).
OK, so these days Grinnell has a very good reputation among people who might really matter. Just as one illustration, here is a per capita list of PhD feeders (on the right side):
Grinnell is way up there, along with some other top LACs. Oberlin is not far behind. Of course some of this is self-selection–kids interested in PhDs are more likely than some to pick LACs. Still, they would not be this high on the list if they were not highly-respected academic institutions.
LACs versus research universities is a complex topic, and they each have their pros and cons. But I think the bottom line is top LACs like these place their grads in a wide variety of competitive positions. So if you would like the experience better at an LAC, that is likely adequate reason to choose one. And in your case, if you can actually get an affordable offer from an LAC, that is also more than adequate reason to choose one.
Finally, the peers of these LACs would in my mind be other academicky LACs. A lot are on that PhD list. I think some people might put Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, maybe Pomona, and maybe Wellesley, in a highest tier (the LAC equivalent of HYPSM). But even if so, Grinnell would belong in whatever comes next, along with Carleton, Middlebury, Smith, Bowdoin, and maybe CMC.
Oberlin then has a bit more complicated standing. I think some people would actually put it as high in whatever comes next after that second group above, and some maybe another notch lower. But not much lower.
Comparing to research universities is fraught with potential apples to oranges. But I think a Grinnell is sort of comparable to colleges like Vandy, WashU, or Rice. Oberlin maybe more like NYU or USC. Not in substance, just in terms of relative reputational positioning.
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Yes, that’s something I thought as well. In any case, I doubt I will be rejected at either school, given the hooks. The main issue is financial aid, but I think we’ll be able to manage it. In the worst case, I’ll need to work to pay some of it off, which is fine since I intend to work anyway.
On another note, if Grinnell requires two letters of recommendation, is one from a sports coach viable since I’m being recruited there?