Match me: College List for student targeting Math/AI/CS Research track [CA resident, 3.97 GPA, 1600 SAT, <$19k from parents]

@coolguy40
Should I consider these to be my true safeties then ?

• UC Davis
• UC Irvine
• UC Riverside
• UC Santa Cruz
• Cal State Long Beach

Due to National Merit offer possibility may be I can add this too ?
• UT Dallas

Thanks for your honest advice. My first goal is to possibly jump to the next level, as I don’t think I will fully enjoy a regular programming job, as much as an AI/ML/Math/Algorithms research type job. But its good to know that I have a Plan B fallback option in case, where I can still lead a financially life.

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@DramaMama2021 @fiftyfifty1 @Momofthree24 @merc81 @Gumbymom @AustenNut @hebegebe @S_Bh @coolguy40

Thank you all for your insights, this is super helpful.

Would certainly keep Yale at top of my list.

UCSB College of Creative studies is a great suggestion. Thanks @aquapt

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Another related question - Given my career goal above, does it make sense for me to apply to a major other than CS? Math? ECE?

CS+ Math (either abstract math or statistics depending on your goals in research. Both are useful in industry which seems to do almost all the advances in AI research these days as they have the computing power to do large scale training).

Regrading the financial situation my suggestion is this: Work out the maximum you can spend for the 4 years, making sure you include living expenses. Net your current savings to get your idea of the loan amount that you are comfortable with in your situation.

With this as a hard stop you can work out how much discount you need in tuition (rarely do top schools give merit scholarships) from each school to make it work. You then play the schools against each other to get the best offer. An example hypothetical is as follows: Assume you have secured admissions @ MIT, CMU, Yale. You can call Yale and let them know that you have these other options (MIT & CMU) but will commit to attending Yale if you get a x% discount on tuition over the four years. Might or might not work, but no harm in trying as you have nothing to lose in this situation. Another hypothetical would be if you had Georgia Tech STAMPS, you can call MIT to ask for a x% discount on its tuition to make it work for you. My casual impression is that the folks at the admissions office at every school sincerely want to help you to make it work, once you are admitted.

Given your interest in research, it does make sense to spend money to go to the most prestigious (which is based on research reputation of the group and not on job outcomes of the Grads). The network effects of people around you in research is still enormous, despite technology enabling remote collaboration these days. This is a minority opinion though, as most people feel spending money to get a CS degree when you can get it for free is insanity.

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UCI and UCD definitely not Safeties/Very Likely.

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@FrankBlack other than ASU, there is no safety in your school list. For CS, you need to apply for UC such as UCR, UCSC, UCM and CSU such as CPP, SDSU, SJSU for safety. Remember your SAT score won’t be considered for CA publics. If you have not heard about Stanley Zhong’s story. Here you go… Good Luck.

He was rejected by 14 colleges. Then Google hired him. - CBS News

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Does this mean about $19k per year from them, since some private colleges’ list price is around $95k?

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Absolutely, more important than the school you go to is the major that you choose. Part of college is about exploring your passions. The typical college student will change their major at least once. It’s because passions coming out of high school probably won’t be the same as you mature and explore. I would do some research and find out how flexible the university is at changing majors. It’s better to get into the more competitive major now and change to something less competitive later, than doing it the other way around.

@ucbalumnus

I meant providing cash 20%. The rest 80% they are willing to help by cosigning loans.

These fields are not my area of expertise. But when I hear an interest in research, I don’t think MS, I think PhD. PhD programs are funded programs, meaning that you don’t pay the institution any money. They will cover your tuition and a modest stipend in exchange for you attending the school and doing some research and/or teaching while there. And if you don’t get a funded PhD slot, then you shouldn’t be going for a doctorate.

I’m going to page @DadOfJerseyGirl who may have some additional insight for your areas of interest as well.

I’m also going to focus on finding you some schools that would be sure things for admission and affordability without needing to take out any loans and perhaps some additional schools where there are merit aid opportunities large enough to fall within budget.

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This is financially irresponsible if you’re a CS major, imo. Graduating from Yale vs. a state school is seldom going to change your pay in the CS world. Seriously. I know people without college degrees or college degrees from no name colleges in CS making more money than ivy graduates.

I’m not going to tell you what your family can or cannot afford, but taking out 304k in loans for 4 years of college does not seem smart.

If you can afford it, by all means do what you want (this is coming from someone at a private college). But I would really advise against taking out that amount of loans (I am NOT a financial expert but I don’t think any financial adviser would advise taking out that loan for a CS degree).

Now if you can only afford 19k and the college determines that you can afford 25k in their opinion, that is a small loan that could be worth taking out. But if they determine you have no financial need but you can only afford 19k, there’s an issue.

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Respectfully this doesn’t make sense. 20% of MIT COA is different than 20% of Cal Poly in state. You need to talk to your parents and get a $ amount they can afford.

Also ask your parents to help you with the NPCs. You need to know absolutely whether you qualify for need-based aid (although you said you don’t believe you will).

With that information, we can help you develop a list that will minimize or avoid loans.

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For a private school in the US if you are full pay, this is an insanely massive amount of debt. You should not take on this much debt. Your parents should not take on this much debt.

There is also a risk of getting part way through a degree and discovering that you and your parents do not qualify to borrow enough money to finish your degree. This can be quite bad if this happens. I used to take guitar lessons from someone who this had happened to, and who was giving guitar lessons to pay off the massive debt that he had acquired without getting a degree to go with it. He was on track to give an enormous number of guitar lessons before he would be able to pay off his debt.

You or your parents should run the NPC for the top ranked private schools in the US (such as Princeton, Stanford, MIT) and see what they are likely to cost you. Then figure out how much of this your parents can afford to pay, and how much you would need to take on as debt. They meet full need as they define it, but whether or not that matches full need as your parents understand it is another issue. Note that these three schools are all need blind for admissions for American citizens (and permanent residents), so if you qualify for aid this will not impact your chances for admissions.

You might be better off attending a CSU. They would be way more affordable unless you get very good financial aid from somewhere else.

I am not personally knowledgeable about how much need based financial aid is available at the Universities of California. This is of course another option.

And you might get very good merit aid from some other schools, such as Arizona State. Sometimes great stats (such as you have) are valuable in order to get a chance to get into a school such as MIT or Stanford. Sometimes this comes with great need based financial aid (if you qualify). Sometimes great stats are valuable to help you get great financial aid from a different school.

Given how well you have done up to now I would expect you to be able to do very well at any of a wide range of universities. There really are a lot of universities in the US that are very good, and there are not a lot of secrets in math or CS, or even in AI, that universities are going to teach an undergraduate student.

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As AI and machine learning are not amongst my areas of expertise, I also used this rankings source and only selected AI (which included machine learning): computer science open rankings.

Although @S_Bh has anecdotes of this happening, I haven’t heard of schools that only meet financial need providing significant tuition discounts to students who do not have financial need but that they really want. Thus, my suggestions are related to schools that indicate that they provide merit need.

Before going down that path, however, has your family run the Net Price Calculator at any schools? If not, I would suggest they run it at Princeton. If you don’t qualify for need-based aid at Princeton, you’re unlikely to receive need-based aid anywhere. But if you do qualify for any need-based aid, then

I excluded the California publics from my categories as those are a special beast beyond my expertise but focused on schools that were on your original list and adding a few more based on the CS rankings and the opportunity/odds of receiving a significant scholarship. Apart from the auto-qualifying full rides from National Merit Finalist status, all other full rides should be considered high reaches. But I do think you would be competitive for them, and that would mean that nobody in your family would need to take out any loans.

Extremely Likely

  • U. of Central Florida: It no longer details what the package would be like for out-of-state students (source). I would reach out to an admissions officer to see what packages were like last year for students like you and whether they anticipate any changes in protocols for this admission cycle.

  • U. of Texas – Dallas: Its NMF package includes tuition & fees, $8k/year stipend, $3k/year for on-campus housing, plus study abroad and research stipends. UTD National Merit Scholars - Hobson Wildenthal Honors College

Higher Probability

  • Arizona State: Its scholarship estimator was malfunctioning, so I don’t know what the price would look like, but I didn’t see any full rides available.

  • North Carolina State: Aim for the Parks scholarship (its full ride)

  • Ohio State: Aim for the Stamps Eminence (its full ride)

  • U. of Maryland: Aim for a full Banneker/Key scholarship (a potential full ride)

  • Rensselaer Polytechnic: I’m not sure what their max scholarships are. I’d suggest reaching out to admissions to find out (source).

Lower Probability

  • Duke: Aim for Robertson scholars and A.B. Duke Scholars (full rides)

  • Georgia Tech: Aim for a Stamps scholarship (its full ride)

  • Purdue: Unless you think you might qualify for the Lilly Scholarship (overcoming socioeconomic or educational disadvantages), which provides full tuition, the biggest scholarship hear appears to be $16k (source). But since it has a lower sticker price than other schools, I think it’s reasonable to keep it on.

  • U. of Florida: No longer gives NMF scholarships to out-of-state students. It appears as though the max award for OOS students is $20k/year which would bring the price to just over $20k/year (source).

  • UIUC: Aim for a Stamps scholarship (its full ride)

  • U. of Texas: Aim for Forty Acres (their full ride) and for the Turing honors program in CS. Under Forty Acres it recommends that applications be submitted by October 15, though they will be considered through December 1.

These schools don’t offer merit aid, so if the Net Price Calculators are coming back as full pay, I would not apply to these schools as you’d be looking at $280k+ in loans to attend: Stanford, CMU, Cornell, MIT, Yale.

I would give strong consideration to replacing schools without merit aid with Rice (TX) and/or Washington U. (MO).

Another school that I think would be a likely admit for you is U. of Rochester. I thought it used to have at least a full tuition scholarship available, but I wasn’t able to see it on its site (source). This is another school you may want to reach out to an admissions officer to get additional clarity on the state of merit aid here.

I didn’t see any merit scholarships larger than $25k at Michigan. Considering its high price tag, I wouldn’t prioritize this school over other options.

U. of Notre Dame’s Stamps scholarship covers tuition and fees, but doesn’t cover room and board. It does have a full ride if you get nominated by a Western Golf Association club, but I’m not sure if you’d have an eligible connection for that (source on scholarships). Thus, with the hard-to-get scholarship still bringing the price to close to the top of your budget, I’d be tempted to nix this one.

Northeastern’s general merit scholarships go up to $28k/year, but it didn’t specify the max amounts for National Merit Finalists (source). With a high sticker price and relatively limited (if any) opportunity to bring that price down to a non-loan budget, I would consider nixing this one.

So the first thing is that you need to find a school that you’re extremely likely to get into, that is extremely likely to be affordable without any loans, and that you would be happy to enroll in and attend for four years. Start by looking at UTD and see what you think of it. If you think you’d be happy there, then you’re golden. If not, we keep looking for other options. Any school that you wouldn’t prefer to attend over the sure thing schools should be nixed. That would be a good way of narrowing down your application list.

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Sorry, didn’t see this until now.

OP, you are a very strong candidate, even for the reach schools on your list. Unfortunately, cost is going to be the biggest hurdle if you don’t qualify for financial aid. If your parents plan to take on 80% of the COA of your top reach schools as debt (that’s around $300k), I absolutely don’t think that’s justified.

I am not among those who will tell you that it doesn’t matter which school you go to for CS. It does, but much less so than for some other fields so don’t worry about it. And in any case, it’s not worth $300k of debt.

That’s a good reference, especially if OP is interested in research because this ranking is heavily research biased.

I’m fairly confident OP will get into UMD, Purdue and UIUC if he applies EA (therefore: they should be “higher probability”), but of course, getting the full rides is low/lower probability. All 3 schools are great for AI.

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Thanks for sharing. Based on the strength of OP’s background and @hebegebe’s comments above (like a 40-60% chance for Yale), I didn’t feel overly comfortable in using my traditional categories for this applicant. Thus, I just tried to make some rough distinctions into higher or lower probability, even if all of the lower probability schools have a greater than 50% chance of happening. (Not saying that they do, but I’m too ignorant of the details in this realm to make an educated guess.)

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@AustenNut @lilyesh @DramaMama2021 @DadTwoGirls @DadOfJerseyGirl

Thank you all for the superb advise, lot to process. Advice re scholarship possibilities and debt is super useful.

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Just wanted to second the suggestion of UT Dallas especially if you become National Merit. Both my sons are high stats kids that went to UTD with their National Merit Scholarship. Both went into CS and graduated with both their BS and MS degrees fully covered by their scholarship in 8 semesters - thanks to their AP credits and UTD’s Fast Track program.

My younger son was offered and accepted a job with an energy company in Houston immediately after graduation with a salary in the solid 6 figures and a laundry list of benefits. My older son has decided to accept UTD’s McDermott Graduate Fellowship to pursue his PhD. This has been an amazing fellowship that not only covers his expenses but has paid for travel to conferences around the world and extra lab equipment.

If you decide to apply please apply early and also look into applying to the Clark Summer Research program. This is a program the summer after high school graduation and before freshman year of college. Unlike many universities UTD encourages research for underclassman as while as upperclassmen and the Clark program can really help give you a head start.

We’ve been very pleased with UTD and hope you give it a serious look. My boys were very happy to graduate debit free and with money in the bank:-)

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Great list by AustenNut. No student with 1600 should be paying $80k+ per year for school. Need to check out Net Price Calculators. If you don’t get any aid from the privates, then focus on state schools.

Apply to the California schools, and check out the second tier OOS publics. UMich, UT, UIUC and probably UF and GT won’t give merit to OOS. You have a good shot at NC State, Ohio State and Purdue. ASU should be OOS safety.

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ASU isn’t that cheap, if looking to stay in the west then Utah is probably a better bet as a safety. But a focus on UCs plus some high merit schools is likely optimal.

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