Ahh, thanks. I don’t really view Miami or UC as “safeties” to be honest. They are safe insofar as he is likely to get in (maybe not with honors). But, they are good programs and in fact as of now they are two top schools for him.
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They sound like excellent options!
I’m going to enjoy following your thread.
We were in a similar stage in 2020 trying to learn about the best college options for our D with premed intentions. We knew nothing about pre-health requirements and the realities of med school admissions… we didn’t know what we didn’t know so it was quite a learning curve. Thankfully we found CC.
You’re already ahead of the game by considering a budget across 8 years of education.
Next consider the best fit for your son to enjoy his undergrad experience. It is easier to achieve academic success when you’re happy.
Your son should be prepared that at any school he considers the premed cohort will be academically strong and competitive kids. I don’t mean competitive with each other necessarily, but they know what it takes to get med school acceptance and will be focused on getting those grades. My D says she had no social life the semester she had org chem I. That is the only B she’s had in her life and she is so proud of it.
Have a Plan B because many kids discover other interests or simply want a better life balance than slogging through years of high stress education.
You have good options in Ohio that should easily hit your budget. It will be tough to beat that. We looked closely at Miami Ohio (but OOS) and CWRU and liked both. @Andygp has a current freshman at Wooster and may be able to share his son’s impressions (STEM but I think research focused rather than premed).
Enjoy the crazy process.
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This.
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I’m also hoping to hear the answer to this. CC is very good at finding other schools with similar characteristics at a variety of price points and admissions selectivity.
For example, loves the 9:1 student teacher ratio at Kenyon. Hiram’s is 10:1, with an average class size of 10 but for half the net price on average so it might be worth looking into a bit more. https://www.hiram.edu/about-hiram-college/college-facts-statistics/
It’s really tough to provide possibilities to explore if the feedback is just loved this one, not that one.
The schools I listed in posts #18 and 19 were selected because of their strength in producing students who went on to earn doctorates in biology, chemistry, and physics, as your original post also indicated interest in an additional science fields besides bio. So although not all schools may be strong in the sciences, the ones I mentioned I expect would be.
If you could get even more specific about what it was that he liked about Kenyon, board members with more familiarity with some of these schools maybe be able to hone in on the ones that might make the best alternatives.
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If there is interest in College of Wooster I can certainly answer any questions.
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There’s many though - look at PA schools like Juniata, Allegheny, Ursinsus, York or Beloit in Wisconsin, Depauw in Indiana.
I think you are overrating the science and pre-med aspect.
For an undergrad most any school will have a major and be strong.
Your issue is you have a budget - and unless you have need that they will meet - you are aiming way too high.
Again, it’s ok with Miami (although I don’t thin Honors in a given) and UC because those are affordable ins - so there where else doesn’t matter.
But you’re basically looking at schools where short of them determining you have significant need, and maybe they well - you have no chance.
You’d be better to add schools - that will at least give you a financial chance (in addition).
A science student will be fine at most any - and all will have other pre-meds (although not all pre meds major in science).
I think that @BuckeyeMWDSG’s sharing of net prices can be helpful for families to understand what is possible to end up paying at a school, which is frequently quite challenging when you see costs of $60-90k for tuition, room & board. Most families, however, do not pay those amounts.
As your family seems to have the ability to fund 6-8 years of postsecondary studies, I am going to assume that it earns at least $110k/year (which is the highest bracket that is shared on College Navigator, the feds’ website). For out-of-state public schools, I went ahead and listed their sticker prices for OOS students along with an asterisk, even though I suspect your son could get some merit aid.
This list is alphabetically ordered by Ohio schools, schools 1 state away, and schools more than 1 state away.
| School | Net Price for $110k+ Families or OOS price for tuition, R&B |
|---|---|
| Oberlin | $46,404 |
| Ohio Wesleyan | $31,918 |
| College of Wooster | $32,373 |
| Allegheny | $31,558 |
| Calvin | $27,355 |
| Duquesne | $38,490 |
| Hope | $29,871 |
| Indiana U. of PA | $29,099 * |
| Juniata | $30,325 |
| Kalamazoo | $31,814 |
| Millersville | $28,832 * |
| U. of Scranton | $39,436 |
| Ursinus | $34,515 |
| Clarkson | $36,207 |
| Illinois Wesleyan | $33,535 |
| Ithaca | $41,887 |
| Knox | $33,402 |
| Lawrence | $30,316 |
| Loyola Chicago | $40,169 |
| Marquette | $36,928 |
| SUNY Fredonia | $34,021 * |
| SUNY Geneseo | $34,586 * |
| Wheaton (IL) | $34,665 |
Basically, I think there are a number of options that stand a good to excellent chance of meeting your budget that could end up being a fit for your son, should something smaller than the Ohio publics be desired.
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I can try, some of it is feel and emotions. He is a quiet and reserved kid. Quiet more so as not outgoing and not the one to go start up a conversation with someone new, but chatty once he gets going. Avoids parties and craziness at school. Loves science and fluctuates between if he likes bio vs chem better. Plans to be in marching band, jazz band and likely some wind or symphonic band. Loves sports, used to play baseball and swim but stopped in high school, but he is looking forward to attending various sports games with friends.
He really liked the campus at Kenyon, the old buildings, pretty setting, cool quaint town, but those old buildings are mostly new on the insides. They really talked up sciences and have good science buildings and labs. They seemed to have plenty of research ongoing and that peaked his interest and had a very nice rec center which will give good options for fun time. He also liked how flexible the scheduling is. He also just seemed comfortable and actual went and started talking with other kids there, which he normally doesn’t do. I think finding a place with people “like him” is important, meaning kids who take it serious, are generally reserved and are genuinely nice people.
As a comparison. He liked Xavier generally, liked the campus okay (but not as much), liked the people quite a bit, but it seemed like science was offered but was not a big focus. He really liked the basketball center right in the middle of campus. Hillsdale I mentioned being too political, but a big issue there is they are very rigid on the first two years of study. He wants to minor in Spanish and Music, play in the jazz band, and try out some alternative classes outside his comfort zone. Some programs that just isn’t very possible, especially if you are also trying to go premed. Kenyon every student on the tour group had multiple majors/minors/concentrations/sports/activities/etc.
Miami he initially didn’t like due to the clear emphasis on greek life, parties, etc., but the honors and premed tour flipped him and he felt he could find his people in those groups. He really likes the sports options (for viewing and fun) and they have a great rec center for activities. And, we toured the bio/microbio labs and the quality of the research really impressed him. Cinci the premed program setup is great and the fact that you can take Jr/Sr classes in the med school campus, which we toured and it is impressive, was a big selling feature. And, the vibe on campus had a fun energy. We sat and watched a baseball game and walked through the football stadium. The size was a concern but the ability to have the smaller cohort for premed made him feel that he would find his people.
Comparing Kenyon and Denison, I think the fact that the class scheduling is so flexible at Kenyon and their very specific selling about science really jumped out to him. Both have pretty campuses and similar study populations. Both have nice rec centers, though Kenyon’s is nicer. Both have research though Kenyon focused on it. Both have cute small towns but they are different, one being a real town with mom and pop shops, the other clearly being made for the college. Both will be a bit of a struggle for hands on internships, clinicals, etc., which Cinci wins hands down out of these four schools and only is behind CWRU in that regard. His only hesitation on CWRU is the dorm setup and location isn’t great, and there is far less to do there for fun as sports are not much of a focus.
So, it’s a mix of having the science focus and resources/research/internships, having students he feels like he would fit in with, and having fun activities that don’t involve parties and frats, and a pretty campus helps.
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Thank you. I know virtually nothing about Wooster yet. I’ll ask once I have a chance to get some initial diligence on them. I assume your kid likes it there and finds that there is enough science focus (assuming it’s correct your kid is STEM)?
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Yes he is Biochemistry and Data science double major. As far as I can see Bio, Chemistry and Biochemistry departments seem to be quite strong and with undergraduate thesis focus it is great place for a research oriented Bio person. Don’t know much about support for pre-med
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What about Dickinson (they do well with Med School placement) or Pitt?
There is a lot of flexibility in the honors tutorial college at Ohio University. They also offer a lot of undergraduate research opportunities. They have a nice campus and it’s the oldest public in Ohio. The town of Athens has an artsy vibe and there is a lot of beautiful nature nearby to enjoy as well.
https://www.ohio.edu/cas/undergraduate/pre-health
https://www.ohio.edu/fine-arts/music/ensembles/instrumental/jazz-ensembles
https://www.ohio.edu/marching-110
https://www.ohio.edu/admissions/tuition/ohio-excellence-awards
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He receives a ton of mail from Dickinson and Pitt but we have not look into them yet.
My initial recommendation would have been Pitt also, but I don’t think merit to bring to $35K is likely.
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Ohio University also has a DO school on its campus. The school has wonderful allied health professions as well. I think this is worth looking at again.
(Says this proud Ohio University allied health professions grad)
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I get the impression from some of your posts that your S25 is looking for a slightly different vibe that he would find in honors and/or pre-med at Miami. Our tour guide for our first visit last year was majoring in something science-y (biochem maybe?) and was in the honors program and that helped D24 see that she would be able to find her people there even if she wasn’t going Greek/highly social.
It was a deal breaker for D24 when she did not get into the honors program (I mentioned the scholarship stuff because we thought it might mean she was also competitive for the honors program, when it did not turn out to be the case).
It seems like you are developing a good list of schools and your S25 will be applying to enough places to have good choices even if admissions is as unpredictable as it has been the past few years. I hope Miami Honors ends up being an option for him, because they do seem to have it together when it comes to pre-med.
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Thanks again for this list. Super helpful. I’ve flagged several of these for him to consider. Especially Loyola.
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My daughter is a senior at Kenyon, a humanities major (but has premed friends), very involved in music. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions. Kenyon has been great for her…
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