My Shakespeare professor at Brown wore an opera cape one day to make the point that the historical dramas were more opera and less history (point well taken). Does that count as dressing up???
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William and Mary has many more female applicants, and thus a lower female acceptance rate, than for males. Be aware of that for an OOS female applicant
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Not sure if you have any brain space left for more suggestions, but I’ll throw one out there: Trinity College in Hartford, CT. It’s a small liberal arts college located in the state capitol with a great classics department. Its vibe is more centrist than say Oberlin or Wesleyan (both of which I love, so no shade thrown). I don’t know about the music department, but overall the college has many strong academic programs and a requirement to take a certain amount of wellness credits (focus on mental and physical wellbeing). It’s considered one of the “little ivies” which might appeal to your daughter.
Good luck!
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Great reminder. Trinity doesn’t get a lot of love from a certain “milieu” due to its urban location. But,
in this case, it should be on the table for the very reasons you cite.
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A good collefe tour/3-day visit would be Trinity, CT + Connecticut Coll + Wheaton MA + Clark.
(To compare urban and suburban environments, college towns, etc.)
What about SUNY New Paltz for a safety and Geneseo for a low match?
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Also, Trinity’s aid can be fantastic and I think it will meet need for FA kids. My kid did not apply, but the net price calculator rivaled colleges that were more well-known and there was a lot to like about the academics.
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I also wondered where that particular anecdote came from, as well as the one about a group project creating a mural on the countryside with plants. Is the student saying these things, or mom? I’m not sure where these ideas are coming from, or what kind of place will satisfy.
Agree. Those descriptions seem like something my kids would have done in elementary or middle school, but not high school or college. Actually I think in HS they occasionally did more creative projects for history class like create podcasts, interview relatives, write screenplays, construct replica artifacts, etc. but those were not necessarily the norm. When we toured Pitzer College we heard a story of a class where students designed and constructed their own surfboards and then tested them out as part of studying the history/art of surfing (I hope I’m remembering this correctly). Maybe this is the type of learning OP is referring to. But no one is requiring anyone at Pitzer to enroll in that class (although I thought it sounded interesting).
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There was a boat-building class at MIT ages ago. I remember as a kid watching from the banks of the Charles River as the students dragged the boats to the river for the competition. Boat-building as a technology has- of course- existed for millenia. But each year the faculty changed up the variables-- “found objects” was always a favorite (the boats looked like garbage barges except that the barge itself was made of garbage), as was “household objects” where the rudder was a spatula stuck inside a mattress with coffee cups attached or something. It was great fun.
I’m not sure the OP’s D objects to classes like this- what better way to learn about “what floats” than to actually create something which floats? And will support a students weight along with the current?
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Also, makerspaces have been all the rage for quite a while. Maybe, that’s the sort of thing she objects to? TBH, I don’t want hijack the thread trying to guess what DD doesn’t like; the OP has given us a pretty good idea of what she does like.
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I’ve been thinking about your daughter and how to try to accommodate her interests, preferences, and potential needs for relatively quick access to family/home. It appears as though ED schools and reaches are the easy part right now. The likelies and extremely likelies, not so much, but that is still a CRUCIAL part any application list. Additionally, though you have a relative who has offered to pay half tuition, I still think it would be wise to have some schools that would be affordable without any gift aid (from outside the college), as circumstances change and you don’t want to be scrambling in the spring if anything changes.
These are some of the colleges that have been mentioned upthread (with the possible exception of Loyola Maryland) that I think are extremely likely admits (or likely, for TCNJ) that are in populated areas and might otherwise be good fits. I’ve dug a little deeper and tried to provide some links so that your family can see some of the opportunities available. Of course, this is just based on a fairly high-level review of their websites. Make sure to dig deeper into each one, particularly in departments of interest, clubs, etc.
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
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Goucher (MD): About 1k undergrads at this Baltimore school that is part of a consortium with Johns Hopkins, Loyola Maryland, etc (allowing cross-registration). 86% of classes have fewer than 20 students and only 0.3% have more than 50. All students at Goucher participate in a study abroad experience. There’s even a fellowship available at Oxford. If not selected for Oxford, studying at the U. of Glasgow (founded in 1451) is a likelier option. There are musical ensembles she can participate in as well as a minor in music if that should interest her.
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Loyola Maryland: About 4k undergrads attend this Jesuit institution. The core curriculum sounds like something she might truly enjoy. The English department’s website also has short blurbs from some of its students for your D to see if this might be the right kind of intellectual/social milieu she is seeking. Nonmusic majors can also participate in the ensembles or take private lessons. It also runs administers a program at Newcastle University in England. 45.9% of classes have fewer than 20 students and 0.9% have more than 50.
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Millersville (PA ): About 5800 undergrads here. Its honors college requires all students to do a thesis, so students that follow that option will obviously be more interested in intellectual rigor. Also, all honors students are required to live in the Honors LLC their first year, so she will be surrounded by other honors students in her dorm, too. Honors classes generally have fewer than 25 students in them, and the university as a whole repeatedly emphasizes the faculty’s interest in teaching. Her test score should be sufficient to get entry (a 3.7 GPA or being in the top 10% of her class are the other routes that receive an invitation). Although only 27.7% of classes have fewer than 20 students, only 4.5% have 50+. If William & Mary is appealing because of studying at St. Andrews, Millersville has an MU in Scotland option where she could spend a semester or a full academic year in Glasgow (along with other options). Its music ensembles are open to students from any major (with an audition). In the most recent class of graduates in IPEDS, 44 majored in English, 28 majored in history, and 21 in music (with an additional 23 in music technology). When compared with other schools with a similarly-sized population, those aren’t small numbers. There were also 109 bio majors, 17 foreign language majors, 28 math majors, 15 anthropology majors, etc (source). Those aren’t majors typically selected by people who are wanting to punch their ticket. And with a location in the outskirts of Lancaster, this should hopefully feel sufficiently populated.
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Moravian (PA ): The college with about 1900 undergrads is in Bethlehem, which should also (hopefully) feel sufficiently populated for your D. 66.7% of classes have fewer than 20 students, and only 0.8% have more than 50 students. If you’re looking for small classes, this place has an abundance of them. There’s even a minor in Medieval Studies (beyond the majors in history, English, etc). Its minor in music allows students to take private lessons and there are many vocal ensembles that your D could potentially join.
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West Chester (PA ): About 14k undergrads here, just outside of Philadelphia. Getting entry to the honors college would be more challenging here than at Millersville, as they indicate that successful candidates have a combination of minimum 3.6GPA unweighted, top 20% of graduating class, and an SAT of 1270/ACT of 27 and restrict the honors college to a max of 80 seats/fall (assuming entering class). As your D is top 25% and currently has a 3.6, access to the honors college seems less certain. The ensembles are open to students of any major, with an audition. There is also a minor in Music Performance should that be of interest for your daughter. Its English department mentions a number of student activities and clubs that might be of interest as well. 26.8% of classes have fewer than 20 students and 4.5% have more than 50.
Likely (60-79%)
- The College of New Jersey: About 7k undergrads just outside of the capital of New Jersey. The music ensembles are open to all undergrads and a minor in music combining both academic and applied (singing) components is available. TCNJ’s honors program is open to continuing students with a 3.0 GPA and an application, but incoming freshman cannot apply unless they have at least one semester of college work that they took in high school (not including AP courses). But because this is one of New Jersey’s liberal arts colleges, 42.4% of classes have fewer than 20 students and only 0.5% have more than 50 students.
If I think of other schools that might be “better/best fit” schools in terms of meeting all her various criteria, I will post more later. These schools are assuming that you’re in eastern Pennsylvania. If you’re in the western half, other schools can be suggested.
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Goucher and Clark are both on the Colleges that Change Lives list and we liked them a lot.
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I am going to throw in another potential safety that I am not sure if anyone else has mentioned yet. Furman University in Greenville,SC. It is about 3000 students and might check a lot of boxes for @arewethereyet.24’s daughter. They have an incredible music department with conservatory level vocal training accessible to non majors. It’s a bit of a hidden gem type of school, and at least according to one CC poster I’ve messaged with, is starting to be discovered by a lot of kids in the Northeast who are looking at NESCAC schools. They are also quite generous with merit aid.
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I did mention Furman for this student. In fact, was going to add it to my “likely” list a couple posts up. If Philly’s airport is convenient for OP, then there are 3 direct flights/day from between Greenville and Philly. If not, however, it’s likely to be a 10-hr or longer drive (10h5m from Philadelphia). Based on some of the mental health concerns, and not knowing where in Pennsylvania OP is, I left it off. But if the geography’s not a limitation, I think that Furman would be a great school to consider.
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As always, your lists are incredible AustenNut. You are truly a College Confidential treasure.
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You all are an incredible resource - I just wanted to quickly respond to the many, many, many questions about a throwaway comment I made to explain the “experiential” learning that I would call “extra” that she does not like, and that her tour of Wesleyan left her feeling she could likely encounter there or, more, that students desired . No, I was not suggesting - in violation of an official or unofficial honor code - that any particular school had done those things. It was hyperbole but designed to convey the qualities of “assignments made up in the name of quirkiness” to be engaging when traditional learning isn’t enough for some students, that she has abhorred in high school. If she’s studying poetry, she doesn’t want to draw a picture, she wants to read, and write. Her APUSH class literally had them dress up to reenact JFK’s assassination to engage students about the subject matter. It’s silly to her, and not the level of rigor she is seeking. She wants to research and read first hand accounts of the day, or discuss its ramifications on the geopolitical climate. So the examples provided were intended to convey what I think she finds annoying academically. And the people she saw there, on our tour, and the way they spoke about their experiences, struck her as more quirky and zany that what she felt she was seeking. To be completely fair, I agree with the posters who are pointing out that she should be more thoughtful about the things she is considering. That’s where I come in, but I have to have ideas to sell and that, my friends, is where you come in. I thank each and every one of you who have taken a moment to write and share your impressions, suggestions, and ideas. There is much sage counsel to be found in the hivemind!!
For the poster who commented that music won’t be a spike unless she’s won state level awards, I appreciate that, but the truth is she hasn’t put herself out there with “competitions” - she wasn’t that focused on it, and her choral director was having significant personal issues (and ended up leaving at the end of this year) so didn’t raise it for her, or push her to pursue it. She plans to audition this year, for the first time, for Districts/Regionals/States. She was selected for the ACDA (American Choral Directors’) summer honor choir this summer, and participates with her selective state choir, which rehearses 10+ hours a week year long. I’m hopeful that the quality of her actual art supplement combined with her selection for Vocal Arts at Interlochen this past summer will get her a closer look. We will see. It’s what she’s got, and she is eager to continue with it at that level or higher. Her art supplement will be what she submits to NW, so will include the 4 required art songs and arias in French, Italian, English and a language of her choice. She has 3 perfected already, and is working on her final piece with her vocal instructor. She could be “the opera singer” for her application, or “the girl who missed 42 days of school.”
She will be changed by the college experience, for the better, in terms of being more open-minded and thoughtful. I know I was. She does a pretty good job of it at 17, and really does know what she wants. I think it’s the belief that she’s entitled to a perfect learning environment - and being uncompromising in her quest for that perfection - that gets her into trouble. We’re working on it, and really digging in to figure out what she really likes, and, more importantly, why. I chose Penn when I did because it was the best school I got into, and coincidentally gave me the largest scholarships. It was a no-brainer. But of course, acceptance rates there were more like 25% when I applied, which she loves to point out. I don’t envy her having to sift and sort through everything to separate the wheat from the chaf - and maybe in the interests of expedience she is tossing options that she should reconsider. I will have her give Wesleyan another look. I was just noodling around on their website and I think she would LOVE their College of Letters interdisciplinary major, for example.
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Nope. That’s being a captivating teacher. The professor requiring the students to work in a group to design a cape for him, as a method of communicating the point that the period was dramaful, is more in line with what she dislikes. Great for a design class, but not what she wants from her history class.
I’m a history professor, and I honestly don’t know a single colleague (my institution, other institutions, across fields) who teaches this way. Debate? Yes. Role-playing? Yes, sometimes (especially those who use Reacting to the Past, which can be an effective way to do a deep dive into complicated historical questions – might not be your cup of tea, but it’s not frivolous). Yes, individual teachers borrow from a wide range of pedagogy. But what you’re describing is probably very rare, and not representative of an entire department, anywhere. If you’ve come across something like that, it’s likely to be the exception, not the rule. Once again, a closer look at some schools might be worth your while if this sort of thing is part of a first-impression rejection.
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What about St. John’s College in Annapolis and Santa Fe?
“St. John’s is known for our interdisciplinary curriculum in which students explore 200 revolutionary great books across 3,000 years of human thought in discussion-based classes. By probing world-changing ideas in literature, philosophy, mathematics, science, music, history, and more, students on our campuses in Annapolis, Maryland and Santa Fe, New Mexico enter fields such as law, government, research, STEM, media, and education. St. John’s is the third-oldest college in the United States and hailed as the “most forward-thinking, future-proof college in America.”
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