Match Me: Senior aspiring to be a physician, good scores [IL resident, 3.97 GPA, 1560 SAT]

Chance Me / Match Me
21

I know people are put off by the city of Buffalo, but SUNY Buffalo is in Amherst, which is north of the city of Buffalo. The buildings are modern and well-kept. She had a single all four years. As you become a sophomore, junior, and senior, the housing office adjusts you to live with students who are more mature.

There are lots of eating options in the community of Amherst.

If my daughter from San Diego, could live in Buffalo, for four years, and adjust to the weather there, then anyone can do that.

1 Like
22

You can major in anything and still apply to medical school. Just take the required courses for medical school applicants as electives if they are not in your major courses.

So…choose something you think you will enjoy and where you will do well. That’s what is important.

I agree that CMU and UNC are reaches (UNC because they have to accept a very high %age of IN state students, and you aren’t).

I agree that the SUNY schools are quite the bargain compared to the costs of the other colleges currently on your list.

I would suggest looking into University of New Mexico where I believe you would get the Amigo Scholarship, @WayOutWestMom can confirm.

Get your application in to Pitt as soon as possible. You might get some merit aid there. Agree Case Western is a possibility for merit aid.

I believe you would get significant merit aid at Arizona, and University of Alabama.

I would agree that University of Delaware is well worth a look see.

Can you be more specific about your geographic preferences?

4 Likes
23

Earlier, you wrote:

So I think you meant to say, “wherever I can get large merit scholarships”?
If yes (and if it’s an important factor for you, rather than merely a “nice to have”), then you will need to adjust your list significantly.

4 Likes
24

Thanks so much! Midwest, West, NE, East, NC in South…largely. But open to any Uni that offers a good experience and is safe.

25

Yes. Unless I get into a highly selective school, goal is to “save the savings” for med/grad school by maximizing academic scholarship opportunities. Does that clarify?

26

Thanks so much! Will check out those schools and dates for Pitt.

27

They are in the ‘outer realm’ for everyone.

I guess I wonder why, if being a physician is your (probable) goal, you would want to spend upwards of $360k for an undergraduate degree that you could get anywhere BEFORE you spend many hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical school?

As has often been discussed on this board, medical school applicants come from every college and university, and an undergrad degree from an ‘elite’ school is not necessarily a boost. Your grades, test scores and volunteer/interning experiences will be the deciding factor.

If you were my student, I’d encourage you to study at the best + most affordable school you can. Your stats are great and many excellent schools will give you merit - take advantage of that, but don’t waste your time chasing big names with big price tags for what you want to do.

5 Likes
28

Thanks so much. I guess it’s the “dreamier” aspect. Also, there’s a part of me that wants to explore Management Consulting options, which recruit from Elite schools. If I get into one, it would give me an option…to keep both routes open.

29

With the exception of art/music conservatories, every college will offer the necessary pre med classes. You’re right to try and minimize any undergrad debt because med school is already $100K/year in many places. Even doctors have trouble paying off a half million in student loan debt.

As far as loans go, you can only take out a maximum of $27K during undergrad ($5500 for your freshman year, $6500 for soph, $7500 for jr and sr) Please do not take out or have your parents take out loans for above that. Med school admission is highly competitive and there are no guarantees that you’ll qualify for med school.

Also, Med schools are not prestige driven in admissions. GPA, MCAT, ECs, LORs, personal statements, etc are all more important than where you go to undergrad.

One more caveat: post-graduation employment for biology degrees is not good. It’s even worse for specialized bio degrees (like neuroscience, cognitive science, biophysics, microbiology, etc) Most bio-related fields will require a grad or professional degree for career-type employment.

You do not need to major in biology/chemistry/biochem etc to go to med school. Med schools accept all majors as long as you have completed the necessary pre-req classes.

Think hard about what you might want to do as an alternative career in case medicine isn’t in your future.

(For example, both of my daughters majored in math and then went to med school.)

Here’s a very useful website to help you learn about healthcare careers besides medicine.

~~

BS/MD program are super, super competitive for admission. They’re tougher to get into than HYPSM. Acceptance rates are in the single digits. And without clinical volunteering, it’s unlikely you’ll be considered as a strong candidate. You have some shadowing, though, you can give it shot—but… be prepared for lots of rejections.

BS/MD–since most of schools offering these programs are not top ranked for either undergrad or med school, there may be some merit aid available for undergrad (NO merit for med school, though). However, the main attractions of these programs are the guaranteed admission so the undergrads tend not to award merit to BS/MD students since they know they’ll come even without merit aid.

If you’re pretty sure about medicine–also consider BS/DO programs. These are less competitive for admission than BS/MD programs and some BS/DO programs (like LECOM’s for example) will allow you to attend any undergrad from their pretty long list of associated colleges and universities. Merit aid may or may not be awarded for BS/DO students for the same reasons as BS/MD programs.

BTW, there’s an entire forum devoted to just BS/MD and BS/DO admissions here:

You can see what kind of profiles past applicants have had and what their outcomes were.
~~

UIC and UIUC are both fine for pre med. UIUC is probably bigger than you want and because C-U is a medium size town, there is huge competition for shadowing and clinical volunteering slots. (Carle Hospitals are no longer allow pre-meds in their clinics/hospitals because they need the opportunities for their Carle COM med students.) You’ll either need a car to get to more distant volunteer sites or do most of your clinical volunteering during the summer at home or during a gap year.

I assume you’re from near Chicago, so SIU is probably not your radar. SIU’s med school is 100% instate for admission (Extremely unusual! There are only 2 med schools that are 100% instate.) , but only if you live outside of Chicago area/northern eastern IL or are a SIU grad. Something to keep in mind.

If you like a less structured curriculum, consider University of Rochester. UR doesn’t have any general education requirements and is pretty flexible about letting you choose your non-major classes. Strong research opportunities and a hospital across the street from campus.

Downside: UR is $83K/year, though they do offer merit aid.
UR-- high target

Another college to consider-- Colorado College in Colorado Spring. Small College right in the heart of Colorado Springs. Beautiful, tree-filled campus. Terrific food. Flexible curriculum. What’s unusual about CC is that students only take 1 class at a time. Courses run 4 weeks each and classes lasts 9am -noon, 5 days/week. That leaves plenty of time and opportunity to get involved in ECs and research, go skiing/hiking etc. Very good professional school placement and only about 90 minutes from Denver–though Springs itself is great place to do stuff.

Downside: COA is $83K/year but merit aid is available.

CC–target

~~

As mentioned above the UCs do not give aid to OOS students. Unless your parents are fine with paying $90K/year for a UC, take them off your list.

UNC limits the number of OOS students accepted so I think UNC should be considered a reach or high target rather than a target school.

I would keep Pitt on your list.

5 Likes
30

Check Rhodes College. It’s a fine school in its own right…a partner school with LECOM BS/DO if you decide to do that, and a good place for potential premeds.

And you likely will get some merit aid there.

3 Likes
31

Thanks so much for the detailed and insightful post. Lot of new information for me to process. Had no idea about SIU & CC, will certainly explore. UR is definitely on the list, my mom is concerned about the safety there, but totally agree with your recommendation. I have UC Boulder on my list as a safety, but CC seems like a better option based on what you shared.

32

It’s not that 18% of OOS applicants can be admitted, it’s that OOS enrollment is capped at 18% of first-year freshman. The OOS admit rate is below 10%. Anyway, as you are noting, UNC-CH is absolutely a reach.

3 Likes
33

Yes, I should have said enrollment; theoretically it is capped at 18% but if the actual enrollment goes over 18%, then the university is hit with a financial penalty (I know that has happened in the not-too-distant past). So the university tries to be careful about how many it admits, and I presume that the university watches its yield carefully. See UNC Policy Manual section 700.1.3(II)(a), (III) (revised 1/19/2023).

4 Likes
34

The UR River Campus is fairly isolated from the city of Rochester. The undergrad campus is on a triangular bump that protrudes into the Genesee River. The river separate the campus from the rest of Rochester. On the land side, th campus is bordered by a large historic cemetery (Susan B Anthony and Fredrik Douglass are buried there) and UR hospital and medical school.

There are areas in Rochester than can be pretty sketchy, especially farther north on the western side of the river. But unless you go looking for trouble, the campus area is pretty safe.

5 Likes
35

If medical school is a realistic possibility (and your stats would support that it is) then you should avoid debt for your bachelor’s degree if you realistically can. Saving some $$$ in a college fund to help to pay for medical school is also a good idea if it is reasonably possible (and it sounds like it might be).

Even if you don’t end up in medical school having some money left in a college fund can be useful. As one example most master’s degrees are not funded. Similarly, while most PhD’s are funded, typically the stipend is barely enough to live on, and having just a little bit of extra $$ at your disposal might make it easier to live for 5 or 6 years while completing a PhD.

As others have said, Stanford, Yale, and Brown do not have merit aid. The various universities of California are very, very unlikely to give any merit aid to out of state applicants.

There are a huge number of universities that are very good for premed students. If you look at students at very good MD programs, and nearly all other very good graduate programs, you will find that they come from a very, very wide range of undergraduate universities. What you do as an undergraduate student will matter a lot more than where you do it.

My personal suggestion is that you apply to in-state public universities (including UIUC), apply to a mix of other schools that are likely to provide merit aid, do not apply ED anywhere, and then get to compare offers once they come in. Given your excellent results in high school up to now I do expect that you will have multiple very good offers to consider.

One thing that comes to mind is that medical research is another possibility. This is however something that you can figure out after you get to university.

Just as one example, one daughter had very similar interests and was similarly unsure what she wanted to do. Due to a change in major after her freshman year of university she needed to take four lab courses at once sophomore year. For most of us you might think “this is nuts”. However, she discovered that she loved lab work and is very good at it. She is currently studying towards a PhD in a subfield of biotech / biology. You are likely to similarly find your passion after you get part way through university and get exposed to a wider range of subjects in greater detail.

You can do this at quite a few universities, but it might be a bit easier at a smaller school such as a liberal arts college. The highest ranked and most famous liberal arts colleges near where we live (in the northeast) do not have merit based aid. However, I am under the impression that some in the midwest – closer to you – do offer merit based aid (perhaps Grinnell College?). This is just something to think about.

I strongly agree with this.

I think that you are competitive for admissions. So are the large majority of other applicants. I doubt that your chances of admissions are much different than the overall admissions rate. However, you won’t get merit aid and I do not think that they are worth the cost unless you are either poor enough to get need based aid or rich enough to not care about $400,000.

6 Likes
36

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response and guidance. Research is definitely on my potential options list. I am now researching other IL schools besides UIUC.

1 Like
37

Have you considered Loyola Chicago? It might be a good option…and I think you would likely get merit aid there.

6 Likes
38

You’ve built a strong background in high school and you have made yourself a competitive applicant for just about any school in the country.

As a frame of reference for some of my comments below, this is how I generally categorize schools:

  • Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
  • Likely (60-79%)
  • Toss-Up (40-59%)
  • Lower Probability (20-39%)
  • Low Probability (less than 20%)

I’d think about a few different things:

  1. How do you handle rejection? How do you think you would handle LOTS of rejection? Reading through the Parents of seniors threads, the spring can be really hard on kids who have very reach-heavy lists, even if they had good news earlier in the year. My general recommendation is not to have more low probability schools than you do of schools that are toss-ups, likelies, or extremely likelies. But if getting lots of rejection just fuels you up to be amazing, then it’s okay to have a reach-heavy list.

  2. How would you feel about turning down a Dream™ School that’s $90k/year if you get into a good school that you like and that is giving you Big Merit™. If it would be problematic for you, do you even want to apply? On the other hand, if you decide not to apply to the Dream™ School because you think it would be too hard to turn down if you got in, would it be something you’d always regret not trying for?

  1. People are always changing, and that includes high schoolers. Many seniors think they want one thing in the fall, and then come spring they want something different instead. So having some different options/types of schools that you find appealing within your list would be a good idea (for instance, maybe you’re debating between honors colleges at a big school vs. medium size school vs. a liberal arts college), or having schools that are closer to home vs. further away, or, or, or…). So it could be that you have a variety of options, especially at the likely end of schools, so that if you change your mind, you have options that will meet that desire.

  2. Find one (and preferably at least two) schools that are extremely likely admits for you, that will be affordable without loans, and that you would be happy to attend for four years. Having at least one or two schools in that category is essential. Then, just look for your favorite schools (perhaps keeping in mind variety), regardless of their admissions rate. Then chance yourself (or ask people to chance you) to see where those schools fall into chancing buckets. If you have more toss-ups, likelies, and extremely likelies than low probabilities, then I think you’re golden. If you then realize that your list is quite reach-heavy, then you might want to retool the list. But just because a school has a low admit rate doesn’t mean that you will like it better than a school with a higher admit rate. You want to find the schools that are right for you.

SIU-Carbondale is a school that I have recommended multiple times on this forum. The number of its alums who go on to earn a doctorate in something is much higher than one might think.

7 Likes
39

Below are some schools that you may want to consider, sorted by my guesses as to what your chances for admission might be. All of these schools offer merit aid.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Agnes Scott (GA): About 1k undergrads at this women’s college that’s in a consortium with other Atlanta area schools like Emory, Georgia Tech, and Spelman.

  • Butler (IN): About 4400 undergrads in Indianapolis

  • Creighton (NE): About 4300 undergrads in Omaha

  • Loyola Maryland: About 4k undergrads and in part of a consortium with other Baltimore schools, including Johns Hopkins, where students can take classes at the other schools.

  • Saint Joseph’s (PA ): About 5100 undergrads in Philadelphia

  • Southern Illinois – Carbondale: About 8k undergrads

  • U. of St. Thomas (MN): About 5900 undergrads in the Twin Cities

  • Xavier (OH): About 4900 undergrads in Cincinnati

Likely (60-79%)

  • Fairfield (CT): About 4800 undergrads

  • Furman (SC): About 2300 undergrads in Greenville, SC

  • Providence (RI): About 4k undergrads

  • Rhodes (TN): About 2k undergrads in Memphis

  • Santa Clara (CA): About 6100 undergrads

  • Southern Methodist (TX): About 7100 undergrads in Dallas

  • St. Olaf (MN): About 3k undergrads about 45m from Minneapolis

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Brandeis (MA): About 3700 undergrads in a suburb or Boston

  • Bryn Mawr (PA ): About 1400 undergrads at this women’s college that’s in a consortium with Haverford and Swarthmore. It’s in a suburb of Philadelphia.

  • College of the Holy Cross (MA): About 3100 undergrads

  • Lehigh (PA ): About 5600 undergrads

  • Macalester (MN): About 2200 undergrads in Minneapolis

  • Trinity U. (TX): About 2500 undergrads in San Antonio

  • U. of Rochester (NY): About 6800 undergrads

  • Villanova (PA ): About 7k undergrads in a suburb of Philadelphia

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Case Western (OH): About 6k undergrads in Cleveland

  • U. of Richmond (VA): About 3100 undergrads

  • Wake Forest (NC): About 5400 undergrads in Winston-Salem

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Emory (GA): About 7100 undergrads in Atlanta

Smith (about 2500 undergrads, lower probability) and Mount Holyoke (about 2200 undergrads, toss-up) are two women’s college in the 5 colleges consortium with Amherst, UMass, and Hampshire. They’re not within 30 minutes of a big city, but the consortium is such that it brings a lot of opportunities and experiences to the area.

4 Likes
40

Thank you, haven’t had that in my list for some reason. Will explore.

1 Like