Well, there are a few (MIT and Caltech, for example), but fewer than I had thought.
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I recently heard something that is a bit puzzling. Someone said that because I am splitter (ACT 36, unweighted GPA 3.2), I should apply test optional for elite schools that prioritize GPA because they may “penalize (me) for not living up to (my) potential as a very smart kid”. I understand the sentiment, and I know that a high ACT score does not erase the effect of a low GPA. I also understand why someone with a low ACT score may want to go test-optional, but I would have thought that the high ACT would still have a net positive effect instead of it having a net negative effect (especially since the research suggests that SAT/ACT scores are better predictors of first-year college GPA than cumulative high school GPA).
Should I follow this advice to go test-optional for elite schools, or should I submit my ACT scores everywhere (across the spectrum of reach, target and safety schools I apply to)? Does anyone know examples of schools that penalize as described and which schools are more flexible?
With a 36 ACT, submit it everywhere that uses it. (Do you actually have a 36, rather than “projected”?)
A college which sees a 36 ACT as some indication of potential may see the lack of such as a lack of indication of potential.
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I agree that you should submit that ACT score without question. That coupled with an upward grade trend is a positive!
You are just going to need to be very strategic in creating your list. IMO you need to use the weakest part of your application to create your safety and target list, which in your case is your GPA.
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If a 3.2 definitely won’t get you in, then what do you have to lose ?
You’ll never know why you don’t get in but even if what you say is true (I dunno), you weren’t getting in anyway.
Accentuate the positive. Hopefully a counselor or teacher can talk you up. Or maybe comparatively to your class you’re in good shape ?
Best of luck.
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Good question. It is projected but not unrealistic. I had 34 in my PreACT last Spring. I took the actual ACT for the first time last week and will get the results in a few weeks. However, based on my experience, I have a good feeling that even if the result is not a 36, it will be no less than 35. We’ll see.
To clarify for anyone who goes through my initial post and sees a discrepancy: there was a typo about the date of the PreACT in the original post, but I didn’t bother to correct it previously.
I took 2 PreACT tests. In the Fall of 9th grade, I had 32 and in the Spring of 10th grade, I had 34.
I think this advice veers too far toward “gamesmanship” in trying to psych out what admissions committees will think. Is it possible that schools exist that would have admitted you with a 3.2 test-optional but would reject you with a 3.2/36? Sure - maybe they’d have a “not living up to your potential” impression, or maybe they’d yield-protect thinking that the 36 made you overqualified. It could happen. But there are also schools that admit a lot of B students and would welcome an applicant who would contribute a higher test score to their stats. You can’t really know, and I can’t see how the high test score isn’t a net positive, especially given that you’re validating it with a rising grade trend.
A lot of commenters have asked which state you’re from, in hopes of being more helpful with school recommendations. But it seems as if you’re not comfortable disclosing that information, which is okay. If your state participates in MSEP reciprocity, then this could be a good place to look for OOS schools that would be both affordable and attainable: https://msep.mhec.org/
U of Maine has tuition reciprocity for all states through their Flagship Match program, and they have a very solid engineering school. U of Utah is also excellent for engineering, and offers a path to residency that allows any OOS student to pay in-state tuition for years 2-4.
I don’t know whether Rose-Hulman would work for you financially, but their excellent engineering summer program could be something to consider for this summer: Operation Catapult | Rose-Hulman
I’m assuming that you aren’t aiming to play football in college, correct?
Since you’re clearly a very bright student who isn’t a perfectionist vis-a-vis grades (which is okay!), I would avoid programs where you aren’t admitted directly to your major, but must attain a high GPA in your first year to secure admission to the major of your choice. Why sign up for that kind of pressure/risk? There are plenty of great direct-admit MechE programs.
You might check out your projected costs at U of Louisville. They’re pretty generous with scholarships, and their engineering school is modeled after the project-based engineering curriculum at Cal Poly SLO (which would be out of reach both admissions-wise and cost-wise). Their engineering LLC can be a great enhancement to an already-strong program: ELLC - J.B. Speed School of Engineering - University of Louisville
Missouri S&T has already been mentioned - that was my first thought upon reading your post. Iowa State is another good one to look at if it would be affordable.
And of course, there are likely good, affordable options in your home state, whichever one it is.
If you say more about your preferences - school size, urban vs. rural, social vibe, hands-on vs. theoretical, and so on, you’ll get more guidance.
Good luck!
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Back to give you an update based on your previous question.
My ACT score was 35.
The question now is whether to take it again to get a superscore or to just use it as it is.
(My Math score was the lowest at 34 with English highest at 36)
Wisconsin resident.
Current List:
HIGH REACH :
Georgia Tech
Case Western
REACH
Wisconsin
Purdue
Minnesota
TARGET
Marquette
St Louis U
Alabama
Loyola Chicago
SAFETY
UW Milwaukee
Iowa State
U Illinois Chicago
Have you spoken to your counselor at the private school?
If you are full pay Bama is a safety - $48k ish. Merit - you are beneath the 3.5 needed. But you’ll get $2500 for the 35.
All your targets and safeties are safe, not factoring in budget. Is budget an issue ?
UMN can happen but not engineering is my guess.
No need to retake the test.
One person’s anecdote and I just did a salary write up on Ga Tech, Michigan and others on outcomes for a OP earlier today. Take rank with a grain of salt. In the one major UMN had higher salaries than UM and Ga tech.
My kid turned down Purdue for Bama. He works with and makes the same as Purdue, Michigan and more. But also the same as W Michigan, Akron and Buffalo his company hired. All are ABET accredited which is what matters. Companies want ABET and pay by location more than a school.
Also, he interned with two kids from one of your top rated. He went ba k a second summer. They were not invited. So the school name is not an auto path to success.
The point is - as a Bama or Iowa State - assuming you get through the curriculum and bust tail, outcome wise you’ll be fine relative to the others if things work as they should.
So I think you’re fine to stop testing and I assume you’ll be attending a school in your bottom two rungs. A higher ACT or math ACT doesn’t change that.
As you are at a private though, get the counselors involved.
Good luck.
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Congrats on your standardized test score. Don’t see any reason to keep taking that. Better to focus on other things. GPA and rigor are the primary issues that most schools look at for admissions.
As has been discussed elsewhere, be careful when looking at career outcome studies, as they have their limitations. Problems and limitations with College career outcome reports: reading between the lines
Are you looking at any in-state schools? Have your parents clarified their budget with you? Depending on where you attend, different opportunities for internships can arise. Many students purposely choose to intern at two different companies to get a flavor of what they are like. Both of my engineer sons chose to intern at two different places at the end of their sophomore and junior years. I have to wonder if that’s more so the rule, not the exception.
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My counselor suggested that I could also consider mechanical engineering technology and 3-2 engineering programs. What are the pros and cons of of these options, in terms of (i) admission likelihood for schools that offer these options (ii) course rigor, (iii) job prospects?
A technology degree may not be what you want vs. a regular engineering degree combined with an env science double or minor.
A 3-2 means you’d go to a school that doesn’t offer engineering - like an LAC - do 3 years (math, physics and more) and then switch to a college and finish your engineering degree. I’m not a fan. 5 years of cost, one year less of income. Go to a school that has both majors up front.
Here’s the curriculum for a Mech Engineering Tech degree and MechE degree.
You’re way early but compare the curriculums. Engineering will be very math intensive, technology less so.
You might find a summer week long engineer program like Operation Catapult at Rose Hulman. Find out what’s right for you.
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I also am not a fan of 3-2 programs…to spell it out even more clearly:
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These programs require one to pay for 5 years of school for a bachelor’s degree.
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Sometimes the +2 school does not offer all that good of aid (and will likely calculate need based aid differently than the first school.)
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You have to leave your first school and friends for senior year (At the 3 + 2 programs)
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Job opportunities are the same as for those graduating with a 4 year engineering degree. There is no outcome advantage to these programs (aside from allowing one to graduate with an engineering degree which they wouldn’t have been able to do at their original school that doesn’t offer engineering.)
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Opportunity cost is high…pay for 5th year of school, plus a year of lost income, plus potentially a lost promotion. When others who graduate in 4 years with an engineering degree are working, you are still in school, paying money, not earning money, not gaining experience, not earning other certifications that are common among young engineers.
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Dartmouth offers a program that’s 2+1+1+1 and gives two bachelor’s degrees…but those grads are also competing for the same jobs as those with one degree completed in 4 years.
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A mech e tech degree is a very different degree than mech e. I’d encourage you to look at not only the 4 year plans of study, but the career outcomes, and then more importantly, career advancement. At schools that offer both degrees, it would be very difficult to start out in tech and switch to engineering later. Purdue is a school that offers both degrees and has good outcome data for the next steps after graduation but you’ll need to do a deeper dive for long term outcomes.
IMO, if you want to be a mech e, apply to schools where you will be accepted as a mech e. The degree is going to trump the name of the school.
I’m also not a fan of the 3-2 programs. See Mwfan1921’s excellent summary as to why.
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I’m just piling on, but I found these FAQs from Carleton (which has a 3-2 program with WashU) pretty telling:
It includes things like this:
Why is there such a large discrepancy between student interest in the Dual Degree Program and students who actually apply to the program?
After 3 years at Carleton, students have built close relationships with their peers and the faculty. Thus, they want to graduate with their class. Also, many students want to take full advantage of their liberal arts education. The 3-2 or 3-3 engineering program places heavy restrictions on the number and breadth of courses students can take and can restrict — or even prevent — the study abroad experiences students have access to. Therefore, the 4-2 or 4-3 program can be a better option for students allowing them more time to meet the dual degree requirements, study abroad, and still graduate with their class.
You’ll note that is basically the same thing other posters are explaining as well. So again, piling on, but I think it is interesting that Carleton is so blunt about this itself.
That being said, WashU’s 3-2 program is doing pretty well overall, with a steady flow of what are usually just a small number of students from any given LAC, but it adds up. I think what this means is basically if you are a kid who did not know you wanted to do engineering when choosing a college, but then you realize in college you do, and if for some reason you don’t want to do a 4-2 or 4-3 plan, then maybe under those circumstances a 3-2 could be a good option.
But I agree with others–if you already know you want to start in engineering as a first-year, just do that. And while I am not sure what your counselor was thinking, I remain confident you will in fact have choices among some very good engineering programs. So I am not sure I understand what problem that advice was intended to address.
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OP, what is your weighted GPA?
Others have summed up the drawbacks of 3:2 plans well. IMO, it’s great that this path exists for students who realize they want engineering after they get to a liberal arts college. But they’re not a great choice for students who know up front that they want engineering.
As for engineering tech, my opinion is that if you are inclined to pursue engineering, and have the quantitative chops to handle the higher math, then the place where engineering tech should enter the conversation is as an “off-ramp” at schools that offer both engineering and tech degrees on the same campus. For example, at U of Maine (where you would likely be accepted for engineering and pay a cost equivalent to your own in-state flagship), you could start out in a well-respected engineering program; but if for some reason it wasn’t going well and you needed an alternative major, you could switch into a tech program rather than leaving engineering altogether.
But you appear to have the ability and the motivation to do an ABET engineering program, so making a preemptive decision to apply to engineering tech programs instead seems unnecessary. And given that your low grades in early high school seem to be related to feeling bored and under-challenged, it could actually backfire in terms of your engagement with your college education.
It’s okay if you can’t get into the more competitive engineering schools. There are many schools that are less competitive for admission and still offer high-quality, ABET-accredited engineering programs - you have gotten many great suggestions already.
And your ACT score is fine - congrats! I don’t think that even a perfect 36-across-the-board would meaningfully change the admissions landscape for you, compared to what you’ve got now. Your test scores validate the high ability that your more recent grades and rigor point to, and that’s all you need.
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Has this poster yet indicated that the family can afford the instate tuition costs in their home state…plus room and board.
We don’t know the financial situation or the home state. We know OP is in a private HS. To get advice that’s tailored to the situation, we’d need more specifics.
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