@Much2learn, upon clarification, OP said that at this point Math was her initial focus. Congrats to your daughter as it sounds like she picked a great path, but one’s path is the one that is best for them. The desire to accelerate one’s studies has little to do with whether one is an advanced student - it’s a personal choice.
A sudent-athlete may decide to be a Math major at a top-LAC or a university and then pursue a MS at MIT thereafter, or one may decide to double major in Math and CS with a minor in Philosophy at a LAC before pursuing a MS, or one may decide to double major in Math and Music with a minor in CS - there are lots of paths to take to a MS.
@chembiodad
I don’t know a single LAC where a student can get a BSE in CS with a major and one or two minors, plus an MSE in CS all in 4 years time if you can manage the course load. She has been able to do that at Penn.
Most LAC’s take 5 years just to get a BSE. They can’t accommodate a student who can do a BSE and MSE in 4 years. The classes are not available.
@merc81 I’m an international so the math sequence is somewhat different. I will have covered single-variable calculus thoroughly by the end of high school, but my curriculum will have also emphasized Linear Algebra, Statistics, Discrete Math, and Abstract Algebra up to beginner undergraduate level. I’m planning to jump into Calc III first semester & either take a placement test for Linear Algebra or double up during first semester. Will definitely be interested in TC/Logic/Graph theory courses, and should be eligible to take these 300-400 level classes beginning sophomore/junior year.
@Much2learn Interesting insight about the NETS program at Penn. I’ve heard from recent students of the program that it’s a lot easier to get into Penn ED with the intention of majoring in NETS/a more niche major than it is to do the same in CS. Is this true?
@Chembiodad Agree with your sentiment about each’s own path; I’m just not particularly sure about the path that will be the best for me, and hopefully I’ll be informed enough to make a good decision. I’m ultimately interested in grad school in CS, whether that be an MS of PhD, either in theoretical CS/math and end up in industry (as opposed to academia, since jobs are scarce in that sector, specially for non-citizens).
You’re not going to find (1) a small, intimate college that also has (2) huge course selection, plus (3) great financial aid, yet (4) isn’t too selective. So where do you want to compromise?
Amherst (including the available consortium courses), or the Ivies, can give you the first 3.
St. Olaf can give you #1, maybe #3, and #4.
Many state universities can give you #2 and #4, and possibly #1 within an honors college or small department.
A couple of women’s colleges (Bryn Mawr, Mt. Holyoke) could come close to meeting all 4 if you exploit consortium courses.
It seems to me that #3 is non-negotiable. You must be able to cover your costs.
You manage #4 (admission selectivity) by building a balanced reach-match-safety list.
So you’re left with the problem of balancing size and course selection.
The consortium LACs are pretty good for that.
Mt. Holyoke, Smith, and Amherst span a fairly wide selectivity range, but all claim to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need. All three can compensate for their own size limits with courses at UMass, which has a very respected CS department. The Claremont consortium is good, too (although it lacks a big research university with strong CS/math).
But, if you’re admitted with good aid to a fabulous university for the programs you want, maybe you drop your concerns about size/intimacy? Then try to find a small circle of friends you like and a good faculty advisor/mentor for support.
@Much2learn, the OP isn’t saying that she wants to achieve a BSE and a MSE in CS in four years, nor is that the measuring stick of an advanced student. It’s a great achievement, but it’s also a choice as to one’s path for an advanced student, there are many.
@tk21769 I’m not going to need/get any financial aid (3)—ran the NPCs for internationals and they put full tuition, even at the Ivies. Talked to my parents a few days ago and they have clarified that they are willing to pay the sticker price. I’m definitely a lot more negotiable with (1) than (2), and (4) is relative: I’m just looking for more schools to add on to my current list (which already has its fair share of super-selectives).
Amherst & Smith are on my ‘tentative’ list; it seems that both schools actively look out students from my HS (admissions rep holds info session + interviews at school) so that’s good. Naviance has an 80% acceptance rate for Smith in the past 2 years, and all have SAT/GPA scores below mine. Smith sounds great; my only worry is the women’s college environment (which shouldn’t be much of an issue with the consortium, right?). Virtually no one applies to Amherst though, so I can’t draw conclusions from Naviance for this school.
I think I’ve previously mentioned somewhere on this thread that size/intimacy isn’t going to be a dealbreaker. (2) and (4) are the most important to me right now, in terms of schools I’m looking to add onto my current list.
It breaks out all of the different single and double major combinations achieved with more than 10% of all graduates including Math as a single, double or triple major - it clearly shows how a LAC is well suited to allow one to study what they love.
@vaporeonKid “Interesting insight about the NETS program at Penn. I’ve heard from recent students of the program that it’s a lot easier to get into Penn ED with the intention of majoring in NETS/a more niche major than it is to do the same in CS. Is this true?”
I doubt that, but it could be possible. I know a few other NETS students, but they all transferred in after freshman year. As a transfer it is more difficult. It requires a separate application and above average grades, and an interest in CS understanding issues related to networks. When she came to Penn, she applied to SEAS, as a CS major. She was cruising through freshman year and wanted more challenge, She spent a lot of time considering the breadth of the M & T program, vs. the depth of the NETS program, plus a MSE. She decided to go for depth. While it is a niche major, NETS is run by the CS department, and it focuses on the connectivity, internet, information packet flow, and scaling issues of CS with a decent amount of systems engineering and economics mixed in.
In general, NETs coursework is more advanced and the major requires a separate application. Based on the students I have spoken with, when the 2017 Career survey comes out you will see that show up in the salaries for the first time. Employers appear to be figuring out that these kids are useful.
@chembiodad
“the OP isn’t saying that she wants to achieve a BSE and a MSE in CS in four years, nor is that the measuring stick of an advanced student. It’s a great achievement, but it’s also a choice as to one’s path for an advanced student, there are many.”
I understand that. I am just saying that when a student opts for an LAC they close some potential pathways down that remain available for some time at a U. My D’s accomplishment is just an example. There are many many students at Penn who have forged paths using the specialized majors, dual majors, and sub-matriculation and dual enrollment options at Penn. Those paths would never have been available at an LAC.
@Much2learn, agree and as one’s collegiate experience is much more than one’s major there are different styles of learning and social environments - something for everyone.
Our DD’s could have attended a top university, but chose a top LAC as that’s what was right for them. Furthermore, one’s ability to pursue a master’s degree isn’t limited by the style of school or the prestige of the school; Harvard’s masters programs are full of students from lesser known state universities and LAC’s.
Because you are very advanced in math, you need to check the course offerings in math and CS to be sure that each school has enough higher level offerings to keep you interested. This may include graduate level offerings in math and theoretical CS.
Liberal arts colleges seem to be strongly advocated on these forums, but you need to choose carefully in this respect; as undergraduate-focused schools which strive to keep class sizes small at lower levels, many have fewer higher level offerings and no graduate level offerings.
OP, if outcomes are important, take a look at Linkedin. As an example, I searched Google employees who attended Harvey Mudd and the paths they took were varied - some straight to Google and some through MS programs
OP, if you are looking for less selective colleges, there are a lot of universities with great Math programs. From top of my head, Notre Dame, Emory, Tufts, Vanderbilt, Michigan, Wisconsin, Rutgers, NYU pretty much every UC.
@Aymyrat, when did ND (USNWR #18) or Vanderbilt (USNWR #14 become less selective? All good choices, but ND/Vanderbilt and Rutgers/Wisconsin are pretty far apart.