<p>From the above link:</p>
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<p>How ironic - to expect that media attention be paid to these children.</p>
<p>A lot of PG kids are “socially inept” because they cannot behave like their age-mates. It is entirely possible that Magnus relates well with his intellectual peers, who most likely are adults. </p>
<p>Of course, his parents play a role in his interests and in his achievements. Do you expect PG kids to raise themselves? My S would not have been as advanced as he was in math if it had not been for his dad; the school sure was of little help.</p>
<p>As for the publicity, it’s his parents’ problem. I don’t care for that. As I said, it’s easy to criticize parents to diminish the achievements of a PG kid. Lots of parents have moved from their countries to give their kids a chance to study at Julliard. So Magnus is not Mozart? It’s okay with me.</p>
<p>Marite, Yes, but there are also PG kids who are not socially “inept.” I think you are doing a deservice to gifted kids to imply that giftedness is somehow always tied to social ineptness. </p>
<p>I don’t think anyone here is diminishing this young man’s achievements. Certainly, his parents have a right to be proud. But, there’s a different between being proud and “advertising” your son’s accomplishments. I think many of us are reacting to that, not the young man’s achievements.<br>
I also am pretty sure that no one here is saying that there is anything wrong with having a gifted child, so I hope that any parents of gifted children are not interpreting the comments made in a personal sense.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I do, however, worry a bit about how many parents out there in CC-land are reading this and saying, “Gosh darn it, little Johnny is 9 and he hasn’t taken the AP calculus exam yet! We better get a move on!” Unfortunately, I am sure there are some who thought exactly that, and that underlying tone also comes through (at least to me) in some of the statements made by Mangus’ parents on their website.</p>
<p>Lots of PG kids are fine socially, and lots are socially inept. It truly depends in part on what they like to talk about. If an 8 year old would prefer to talk to adults, that’s fine by me. My S loved talking math to adults; he needed adults to talk math with.</p>
<p>What I see on this thread is poor little Magnus. That’s a way of cutting someone down to size, in my book.</p>
<p>Most 9 year olds will not be able to do the work, no matter how much cajoling, threats, or whatever the parents use. If the parents of 9 year olds are stupid enough to be envious of a PG kid, that’s their problem. I don’t have any sympathy for them.</p>
<p>What is far more damaging than pushy parents (and I see this mostly on CC which is NOT representative) is parents not pushing their kids enough, not being properly invested in their kids’ learning, whether it is making sure that their kids have done their homework, attending parent-teacher conferences, attending school events, making sure their kids have had proper breakfast.</p>
<p>“A lot of PG kids are “socially inept” because they cannot behave like their age-mates. It is entirely possible that Magnus relates well with his intellectual peers, who most likely are adults.”</p>
<p>See, I am inferring from the article that the parents have not made a huge or efficient effort. Of course, it’s an assumption, but I think it’s at least a plausible one. </p>
<p>“Of course, his parents play a role in his interests and in his achievements. Do you expect PG kids to raise themselves? My S would not have been as advanced as he was in math if it had not been for his dad; the school sure was of little help.”</p>
<p>If you would rate their level of involvement as normal or desirable, then we have a fundamental misunderstanding. The parents should be FOSTERING growth and intellectual curiosity, not forcing it and not bragging about their son in the manner that they do. One cannot help but think that there are ulterior motives for ‘encouraging’ Magnus. Being happy for their accomplishments is one thing, but they take it to another level.</p>
<p>Bragging? No. But then a lot of posts on CC would need to be deleted. Fostering? yes they are. Sometimes, it’s kids who do the pulling. I’m of the opinion that a kid who does not like to spend hours upon hours doing something will find a way to sabotage the parents’ agenda.
There’s a lovely scene in Mr. Hulot in which the parents fondly gaze at their son reading a book. They are totally unaware that there’s something far more fun he’s hiding behind the book.</p>
<p>The difference is most ccers, that we know of, don’t have websites devoted to their little stars, don’t share their amazing test scores with the world, most CCers WORRY when their kids have no friends</p>
<p>And most CCers don’t seem to overtly live thier lives through their child, as this family seems too.</p>
<p>Bragging about your kid on an anonymous website is not that same as creating and marketing your child.</p>
<p>“I am grooming him for the American Mathematics competitions and I believe he will win a spot on the United States International Mathematical Olympiad team when he is 10 or 11 years old,” Mark LaDue said</p>
<p>[Star</a> Community Newspapers](<a href=“http://www.southlaketimes.com/articles/2007/03/03/southlake_times/news/04front.txt]Star”>http://www.southlaketimes.com/articles/2007/03/03/southlake_times/news/04front.txt)</p>
<p>Maybe it was a poorly written article, but one said that the boy was barely talking at age three? I am not making a judgement, but it was just something I noticed. It could mean nothing. It could be hyperbole, but well, it could be something else.</p>
<p>I think there is more to the story and more to this family dynamic. We are getting part of the picture. </p>
<p>But I just find it sad that he has no friends. Sad sad indeed.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that when adults try to cut down a gifted kid to size that it can be much more emotionally scarring than having overzealous parents. In particular, this is true when the kid is in the public school district where insecure adults have power and authority over the kid.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with everything they are doing, but I see nothing wrong with the kid being that advanced at a young age in itself.</p>
<p>Hope this boy doesn’t go the way of the Unabomber, who also had an unnatural childhood.</p>
<p>A shame. </p>
<p>I very much fear this boy won’t amount to much as an adult, or not as much as he could have. He won’t be able to relate to anyone too easily, except to a really small % of people, if that. Learning to socialize is as least as important as his math skills. I predict he will always feel awkward with others when not discussing math. Perhaps he won’t mind, but the Unabomber did. He resented his childhood, apparently, and the lack of natural interaction with the other neighborhood kids and girls when he became a teen and up, which then made him self-conscious and awkward and he apparently couldn’t get over it.</p>
<p>Also, a child has to learn to be adaptable, and it has to happen young. This boy is being pandered to, he only has to learn what he wants to learn. Another few years of that kind of spoiling and he sure isn’t going to be happy when he finds out what real life holds in store for him.</p>
<p>His parents won’t be around forever to ‘nurture’ him, and then he will have to cope on his own. </p>
<p>good luck to him!</p>
<p>^^This is exactly the sort of things I mean.</p>
<p>good luck to the prospective Unabomber??? eight year old and doomed already.</p>
<p>The family web site mentions college music theory–omitted in the article, in favor of a stupid factoid about four hours daily piano practice. My S began college music theory at age nine. It’s a deep and beautiful discipline, and Magnus may be learning as much history, aesthetics, and creativity from music theory alone as most kids get in advanced high school courses. </p>
<p>The parents’ true feelings about his social life may be more complex, and less complacent, than conveyed by the article. An eight-year-old who thinks in voice-leading and counterpoint will not find many soul mates at Chuck E Cheese birthday parties and Little League games. The parents may actually feel anguish about his loneliness, and yearn for normalcy for him. This is not an easy parenting situation by any means.</p>
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<p>I’m certainly not seeking to make monsters of gifted kids; I happen to be raising one myself!</p>
<p>And yes, finding peers for him is tough; there weren’t any four-year-olds around to talk about network protocols and discuss the merits and disadvantages of one over the other. But not every interaction and not every conversation needs to be academic or about his interests, and indeed, not every conversation should be.</p>
<p>The world has a wide range of people in it; to live well or easily in the world, the kid has to know how to deal with the wide range of people in it. Granted, adults get to self-select much of their environment – bright people generally spend their workdays with other bright people, people choose their friends and build their own families – but there are still interactions that have to happen with other people.</p>
<p>How many of us in our working lives have had bosses who were not as smart as we are? How many of us have to make conversation about topics we’re not all that knowledgeable about, talk to people we really would rather not talk to? How many of us have had to deal with a bully, either as a child or as an adult? I’m betting that at some point, everyone here has had to deal with these situations. Learning how to handle these situations are learned skills, and these skills aren’t learned in isolation, and aren’t learned in an environment of all adults.</p>
<p>Gifted children, even prodigiously gifted children, are still children, and children are wired to learn through play, especially play with other children. Sure, the parent might have to remind her four-year-old kid that the other kid doesn’t read, so asking for a toy by what is written on the toy is not going to work, but there is plenty of play that is valuable for any kid, gifted or not, plenty of play that one doesn’t need other math or music or hyperlexic playmates for.</p>
<p>Sometimes, all that’s needed for a PG kid is becoming older.<br>
I have already mentioned the 17 year old who joined my H’s graduate group in which the median age was about 24-25, i.e. most members had already taken their Ph.D. generals and were quite advanced in their Ph.D. work. Needless to say, the 17-year old not only was not very comfortable interacting with other members of the group but he also made them somewhat uncomfortable as well. His table manners were deemed atrocious. H and I lost track of him over the years. But we did hear about him once. He’s gotten his Ph.D. at 20 or 21, went to work for a prestigious lab where he was highly respected and very much LIKED. And he was happy as a clam. Presumably, he had to talk to his plumber once in a while (file under William Deresiewicz on the Downsides of an Ivy education), he had to go grocery shopping and possess his soul in silence while the cashier laboriously totaled what he owed, etc… But no one suggested that he was depressed or was a potential Unabomber.<br>
Another story is a prof who suggested that our son skip high school entirely (which he did not). The prof remembers how unhappy he was in elementary and high school because he was nerdy. When he arrived at MIT he suddenly was in his element; he was happy for the first time in his life. That prof is extremely liked by his own students and is well-known in his field. The fact that a PG 8 year old has no friends of his own age does not mean that he is doomed to remain that way.
Lots of PG kids are unhappy as kids. It does not mean they turn into unhappy adults. What happens is that some of their age peers eventually catch up with them intellectually.</p>
<p>What is really a shame is that somehow, at some point, in this country at least, we seem to have taken a wrong turn as a society, and are producing far too many inidividuals with very narrowminded views on what is/is not acceptable behavior. Why must we force EVERY child or individual - including the square pegs - to fit into the same round hole? And if they do not, they are some sort of abomination. In our education system we have put so much emphasis on NCLB, one size fits all, and have ignored developing better or more individualized curriculum for our very gifted, assuming perhaps that they they will still succeed with just a “good enough” education. And for those who do not “fit” in, we label them as abnormal or blame the parents. </p>
<p>Yes, the parenting style of this child may seem a bit atypical but this is not a typical child (and perhaps not even a typical gifted child). Who are we to judge what will or will not work for this child - especially when we cannot observe his social interactions with his family or the world? Either way he may never fit in. Who are we to say that this is not the right course for him, at this moment, and that this might not provide him with at least SOME way to perhaps feel accepted, if not a litte bit normal? And how do we know that all gifted children must learn to “play” in the same way? Is this not assuming that ALL brains are wired the same - even though we KNOW that this is not true?</p>
<p>I have a gifted S as well although not in this league, who also has Asperger’s. And I suspect at the age of 8 he was far more socially inept than Magnus despite “forcing” him to attend school (actually, home schooling was not an option financially or I probably would have gone that route, if for no other reason than to avoid the bullying and rude/insensitive treatment by his peers, which I can assure you were NOT learning lessons for him - he was too young to be able to make rational mature deductions of what was happening to him and in the world around him) and despite “forcing” him to go to social skills development/therapy when he was young. But as Marite points out, sometimes it just takes time; for my S it a just seemed to come together during his mid-teens and he is certainly far less “Aspergers” now than he was as a younger child. What do I attribute his “success” to? Perhaps to a parent who was willing to engage with him at his level, using his own interests to keep him engaged with the world - something which nobody else seemed able to do.</p>
<p>I personally have no problem with the parents’ unusual educational plan, as long as they are following the interests of the child, not channeling them. I’m somewhat afraid that, with 2 math PhDs as parents completely defining his intellectual universe, a certain degree of channeling is going on. I wonder whether he is encouraged to explore intellectual and artistic pursuits other than those most important to his parents, or subtly discouraged.</p>
<p>I do find the publicity-seeking activities of the parents distasteful and misguided. Claiming that the child is “another Mozart” is precisely the stupid kind of thing that reporters are absolutely certain to do if you seek publicity for your PG child. The media ALWAYS treats very bright individuals as freaks. This boy is a superb pianist for an 8 year old, but he shows no signs of being the second coming of Mozart–yet. Mozart’s father is of course infamous as the ultimate stage parent, dragging his son around the capitals of Europe, but at least he had the real thing in tow. I don’t mean to denigrate the boy’s piano skills, but for a perfect illustration of where he is versus a true artist, play the YouTube clip of Earl Wilde playing the same piece that comes up right next to Magnus’s. </p>
<p>I wondered WHY they had him take the AP Calculus exam at the age of 8? What were they trying to prove, and to whom? If he had gotten a 4, what would they have done? Would that have meant he was less of a genius in their eyes? One of the media bits also says that the parents are continuing to homeschool so that he can concentrate on entering piano competitions. Elsewhere, they go on about preparing him to compete in math competitions. They seem to be grasping at these competitions as a way of validating his genius–or their decisions about how to raise him and how to educate him.</p>
<p>Why all this focus on competitions? Why not just nurture his mathematical and musical talent and possible OTHER talents…encourage his creativity, discipline, and artistry so that he develops and flowers?</p>
<p>In effect, they seem to be taking the tack of teaching to the test, rather than encouraging his creativity.</p>
<p>The clunky web site is strange and creepy, to me. At no point does the boy speak for himself. It seems as if it is the father’s awkward way of reaching out to the rest of the world. He’s given up his job to school his genius. Does he want validation that he’s doing the right thing? Is that what all this is about?</p>
<p>I agree with Baelor that there are many PG kids out there whose parents do not exhibit this kind of behavior. And saying so is in no way an attempt to diminish the kid by denigrating his parents.</p>
<p>These parents are stage parents- their kid may have talent, but what are they sacrificing in order to nuture those “talents”</p>
<p>Homeschooling is great, bike riding is great, but why not some social activites that go beyond his family></p>
<p>From threads I have read about homeschoolers, most homeschooling parents make sure their kids get that those social outlets- and most parents of gifted children take pride in talking about how active their kids are though they aren’t in regular school.</p>
<p>This family seemed to take pride that he had no friends except family. What parent does that, advertises their kid has no friends?</p>
<p>Well, I don’t see anything wrong with taking the AP test. It’s helpful to homeschoolers to know that they actually mastered the material they are learning. I would be somewhat concerned if a kid like that got a “4.” It would tell me that perhaps the kid should slow down and reinforce what he had learned. Unlike AP English or a humanities AP, if you know calculus you will get a 5. You don’t have to “teach to the exam.”</p>
<p>I agree that publicity that early isn’t necessary or positive.</p>
<p>^^Yes, but this boy is <em>8</em>. A pair of math PhDs can be presumed to know if the kid has mastered calculus without taking an AP test! If the kid needs the score to get into a class he wants to take at the age of 9, okay. :)</p>
<p>Why should he NOT have taken the AP-Calc test at 8? He set out to prove what every other test-taker does: how well he has mastered the materials. Anything wrong with that, especially for a homeschooled kid for whom validation is important?</p>
<p>In fact, taking SATs and APs at a young age is a real lark because nothing of real consequence hangs on the result. I know it from my S’s experience taking the SAT in 7th grade and APs in 8th grade. He did not break a sweat, while others who were hoping to get into good colleges were as nervous as could be, and for good reasons. But he was plenty happy to get good scores because he could get into MV-Calc instead of Algebra I or some such course.</p>
<p>So if Magnus had gotten a 4 instead of a 5? He would have done what others who get 4s do. Maybe revise a bit then move on to more advanced topics. That’s what college freshmen do. </p>
<p>I am not the least surprised that the child of mathematicians would be good at math and interested in math.children of physicians are more likely to study medicine. Yeah, there was no parental influence on their choice.</p>
<p>I doubt that mathematicians think that the only things that count in life is math and music. But right now, these are the subjects that captivate him and they’re helping him make the most of it. </p>
<p>The publicity is a different thing altogether. But I don’t see any evidence that they’re “creating” a math monster. You can drag a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. No matter how much effort you put into practicing music, you can’t be another Mozart if you don’t have the inborn talent (but you can’t become the next Mozart if you have the talent but do not practice). If the kid is unhappy with his parents’ agenda and regime, he’ll rebel soon enough. And he’s smart enough to subvert all their efforts.</p>
<p>I think it is obvious from the web site that the parents are searching for a book or movie deal; perhaps a game or reality show? Some kind of brand endorsement? I wish they’d wait till he’s older and let him decide what kind of publicity he wants.</p>