<p>It seems to me that we are jumping the gun here quite a bit with the implication that Magnus has or could have one of the autism spectrum disorders. For those kids who do have them, certainly early intervention and targeted therapies, including the teaching of social skills is crucial - and in my post I also mentioned that if I had a kid like this I’d have long since consulted professionals for evaluations and advice. No indication here that the parents think anything like this is going on, though many here have tried to make a case for it. Still, I don’t think anyone can or should try to diagnose over the internet (including me). In one of the linked articles, the father did say he noticed significantly delayed speech (Magnus barely spoke at three) but it sounded as if he saw it only as a link to possible giftedness, not as an issue in its own right. I agree that IF anything else is going on with a given child it needs to be addressed and that not doing so can be counterproductive.</p>
<p>There was a kid with Asperger’s in S’s school, whose behavior was, frankly, overtly obnoxious at times. For example, this year she informed him and another kid that she intended to outscore them on a particular national exam. (There is no way that this is a result of S’s demeanor or actions. When people have congratulated S for doing extremely well on this particular exam and others and exclaim that he must be prodigiously talented–which in fact he is–I’ve heard him respond, very modestly, “Oh, I just test well.”) When–for the first time–she achieved her goal and actually did place above him, she held up her trophy, pointed, and shook her fist at him at the awards ceremony, much to the amazement of many. Afterwards, she literally shouted at him from thirty feet away to gain his attention, and when he paused to acknowledge her, said “I’m sorry I beat you.”</p>
<p>Her older brother is apparently “odd” as well. I don’t know about her parents, but they were sitting right in front of us during the fist-shaking episode, and I didn’t discern any effort on their part to suggest that she refrain, OR any discomfort with her action.</p>
<p>I’ve never seen a kid behave like this before. It was astonishing.</p>
<p>If the parents are themselves autistic, they may not think their kids’ behavior is odd and needs correcting. And it seems that autism has a genetic component.</p>
<p>Excellent post catbird! I totally agree. Early social skills development classes were a complete waste of time with S. So were planned play dates, cub scouts, etc. although we didn’t try too many organized youth activities because he was just not interested in them and the transition of handling short-term activities and summer programs was often too difficult for him - and more harm than good, social-wise, when it takes weeks for him to even warm up to the instructor, let alone the other children. (Thank god for the multi-age 2-yr classes in our district where he could have the same teacher and students from his grade for 2 years in a row!)</p>
<p>I tracked down the attached article (it might have originally been linked in the Hoagies page?) which describes some of the differences between gifted children and gifted children with Asperger’s. </p>
<p>It also includes a very brief section on social skills training, noting in particular the use of social stories (I think when S went through his social skills groups these were not yet being used but this was also right before Aspergers was even an official diagnosis; a lot has changed since then). The point, as catbird also suggests, is that Aspies learn social skills almost like they are learning a foreign language -ie intellectually not intuitively or by example; they must first learn and understand the nonverbal and social cues that make up the “language” of socialization before they can even begin to apply it - and for many, this may not come together for them in a way that they can use until they are much older and more capable of this kind of understanding and of understanding the whole idea of “theory of mind”. </p>
<p>Of course the sooner parents, teachers and professionals start this learning process through things like social stories, the better, but that is what is most needed in the younger years, not the actual interactions with other children unless accompanied alongside the socials skills training. Once removed from the social situation, the Asperger’s child may not be able to 'connect" any later discussion to that situation, partly because they think in such concrete terms - which is why the social story is set up the way it is, reliving a specific situation - but then the problem is that the child may still not be able to generalize or apply whatever he may learn from the one situation to another even though it may be very similar. It is not until enough stories or examples of how to behave in these situations have been coded into his/her brain that he/she may then be able to pull out that “data” and apply it in future situations…you really have to think of their brains in terms of how a computer might work, where the output is defined by the quality of the data that is coded in. Ironically, I think it is very very difficult for “normal” (neurotypical) individuals to truly grasp how the autistic mind works just because so much of what is “wrong” are things that we take for granted and are not even aware of in ourselves, but the computer analogy might help to understand this a little better.</p>
<p>[Gifted</a> children with Asperger’s Syndrome](<a href=“http://www.gt-cybersource.org/Record.aspx?NavID=2_0&rid=11381]Gifted”>http://www.gt-cybersource.org/Record.aspx?NavID=2_0&rid=11381)</p>
<p>Re #143: Marite, that was my thought also, and that likelihood is what the story illustrates to me. I should add that I was told by another parent that the kid is on the Asperger spectrum. I do not in fact know if she is, or if she is a “high functioning autistic” individual. Certainly, she is bright, and does very well on written language exams, but her speech in English is oddly stilted and somewhat herky-jerky. I would not presume to diagnose her or anyone else, naturally.</p>
<p>Funny, how judgmental parents get when reading about the various ways to raise PG kids. If this boy had a learning disability would we be equally harsh? In Magnus’ case, the issue isn’t learning disability, but an ability so unusual that it requires highly unusual upbringing. </p>
<p>Magnus plays sports and hikes. Magnus doesn’t study literature or foreign language but then most 8 year olds don’t either. I am sure at some point in his life, his parents will introduce him to both, plus the sciences and everything else they feel he needs and the law requires. What Magnus does study a lot right now is math because he’s good at it and likes it. I imagine ditto with music. </p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with the way this child is being raised except maybe for the public-ness of it. But who am I to judge? We have a family website with my kids achievements on it too. They’re more of the standard ‘we’re-so-proud-johnny-didin’t-flunk-out-of-9th-grade’ variety, but still 
</p>
<p>Finally, I’ll say that responsible parenting is hard. Responsible parenting of a highly unsual child – disabled or highly gifted – is even harder. I say good for these parents to see their child’s special needs and for doing everything they can to meet them.</p>
<p>Some spectrum children are loving and affectionate, at least to trusted caregivers. That can really confuse the picture, and delay parents from requesting a work-up.</p>
<p>Katlia, for me the judgment comes from the advertising. I find that incredibly tasteless and intrusive.</p>
<p>My dear friend’s son is off to RPI this fall. He’s never been diagnosed, but he exhibits many Aspie symptoms. Has been melting down regularly since orientation since it because clear that he won’t have a private room. Oy.</p>
<p>mathmom, </p>
<p>Not a lot of folks here have given up their day jobs to teach their talented youngsters math. I have no doubt whatsoever that there would be more 8- and 9-year-olds taking the AP Calc test (or able to pass it) if more parents did what this family did! From what I’d read, they did extensive prep work with their kid. Not a lot of folks focus so singlemindedly as these parents apparently have.</p>
<p>catbird,</p>
<p>A socialization program for a kid with social deficits should be appropriate to the kid’s situation, of course. S is on the spectrum; he got intervention (starting in K) through attending special ed schools. The schools were able to address his deficits and provide him with the social skills training he needed. He may not always have gotten appropriate academics from these schools – the ones he went to did not have a lot of experience with highly-gifted kids – but the academics weren’t nearly so much a concern. The kid is wired to learn! He learns easily and well and quickly. ExH (who is also on the spectrum) and I provided home environments that let the kid explore a lot of academic subjects, but we didn’t feel the need to push the academics. (Neither of us quit our day jobs. 
)</p>
<p>S has been successfully mainstreamed. When the special ed school stopped addressing his social deficits (they were coasting, as he was much improved) and yet didn’t beef up the academics, it was time to move him to a school that would provide a better academic setting.</p>
<p>Consolation, </p>
<p>The girl’s parents might just be so used to their kid’s behavior that her oddness doesn’t even register. Kind of like the way parents of toddlers ofttimes don’t realize how loud their kids are because they’ve had to tune some of it out to survive!</p>
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</p>
<p>Indeed! (10 char)</p>
<p>
The people who worked with D used computer terminology. Students learned they had a different operating system than their typical peers. “Autism Operating System” vs. “Typical (i think) Operating System”.</p>
<p>Haven’t we all (parents) warned our children about posting personal information on the internet? I think it is very irresponsible to put this child’s name, picture, and general location out there for all to see.</p>
<p>Owlice and Zoos, is it really all that much more tasteless and intrusive than parents posting their child’s athletic accomplishments? </p>
<p>I’m not arguing. I’m asking: if this child were a top-ranked chess player or a prodigy gymnast, would listing their stats be also bad taste?</p>
<p>Katlia, I’ve never personally seen such a website for athletics created by a parent, but I’m not from an athletic family so it may just be outside my realm of experience.</p>
<p>I might not be bothered as much if he were older and could be ok with his loss of privacy. That’s just me, though.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I say yes.</p>
<p>lol,
If a child is an athletic prodigy, you don’t need a website. The local newspapers will handle that for you.</p>
<p>I would not worry about privacy for a very young child. I 'd worry more about what teenagers or college students put on their facebook entries.</p>
<p>katliamom, </p>
<p>Listing stats is different from advertising. The father’s state goal is advertising his kid. And the way he does it!</p>
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<p>Doesn’t the way that’s worded seem… oh, I don’t know… socially inappropriate or something, coming from an adult? </p>
<p>It’s not “Hey, my kid got a 5 on the Calc test! I’m so pleased for him!” in a blog about the life and times of parenting a kid (or here on CC ). It’s more along the lines of “Hail my spawn, the prodigy! Give us a book deal!” (or whatever it is they are hoping for by advertising the kid).</p>
<p>I’m allll for bragging on our kids, believe me! I love hearing how cool/smart/talented/funny/etc. other people’s kids are, but this kid’s website… strikes me as odd. Socially inappropriate, exploitive, tasteless, SOMEthing.</p>
<p>(And hey, FIVE review guides? DOZENS of practice tests? That’s way over the top even by CC standards!)</p>
<p>An issue about the publicity that bothers me is this:
What if he is very talented but not, in fact, a genius? What is the effect on a child who has been touted as a mathematical and musical genius to the world at the age of eight, when he does go to college and, perhaps, hits a wall or discovers others even more talented? Especially if his well-advertised genius is all he has?</p>
<pre><code> Doesn’t that bother anyone else?
</code></pre>
<p>I agree, sac. This child is being subjected to very high expectations. Even if he is a genius, this is hardly healthy. </p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more that the father’s “marketing” of his son’s “genius” is nauseating, owlice.</p>