<p>
</p>
<p>I never said anything about schools cherry picking. It is more to allow parents whose children are in lousy districts to choose. I also think public schools should have rules that allow them to rid themselves of problem children and I am all for finding alternative situation for those difficult children.</p>
<p>zoozermom and NJSue: Please stop with the “evil republican” nonsense! Both of you are respected, thoughtful posters who look at the issues and think for yourselves.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree with the first part of this, NJSue. As for the second, our city had a failed experiment in a public “charter” school over the past couple of years. A prominent African-American community leader attempted to start it. The reason there was so much outrage was that the school WOULD be cherry-picking those minority kids who would be most likely to succeed so that the statistics on student performance would be favorable. And by doing that, the schools those kids came from would lose some of their best and brightest students…further making the cynical case for why the public schools “don’t work.”</p>
<p>How to fix poverty? Wish I had an easy answer. but for starters–better accessible health care, jobs where people live (do posters really believe people don’t want to work?) and have a living hourly wage–parents who have to work two jobs at min wage will still be in poverty, plus they won’t be home helping their kids to learn (lose/lose)–better crime control–kids who are afraid to go outside don’t experience life, better addiction programs, education for parents (many, many low income parents speak other languages and have limited ability to help their students–my H just got his class lists including home language for the upcoming school year–he has kids coming a bunch of languages including Abkhaz which I’d never even heard of). The most important I think would be a living minimum wage–that would both mean parents had time to parent, and less need to move around.</p>
<p>But overall, there aren’t a bunch of easy answers to fixing poverty–so my main point is–don’t blame the schools for it. So-called failing schools are always situated in communities that are poor. Coincidence? You tell me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh that’s right, I forgot about the CA high school exit exam, that joke that tests only English and 8th grade math; the one that 85% of high school sophomores pass on the first try. Is that the one that Damon is concerned for his kids about?</p>
<p>What other standardized tests can one not get out of?</p>
<p>Sally, most republicans think for themselves, as do most people of every political persuasion, and often hold positions that people who reflexively dislike that group sometimes find surprising. I was facetiously making the point that when you dig below the surface, there is often more common ground than labels might suggest. I consider myself far right and I believe I hold the same position on this issue as people I consider to be on the far left.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>cromette, it was mentioned in the Malkin article, posted somewhere in this thread.</p>
<p>See here, as well:[Matt</a> Damon, Arne Duncan and the Divisive Teacher-Quality Debate | The Nation](<a href=“http://www.thenation.com/blog/162558/matt-damon-arne-duncan-and-divisive-teacher-quality-debate#]Matt”>http://www.thenation.com/blog/162558/matt-damon-arne-duncan-and-divisive-teacher-quality-debate#)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Man, I just teared-up re-reading that passage.</p>
<p>Damon is not opposed to teacher evaluations,he is opposed to tying their evaluations to standardized test performance of students and schools.</p>
<p>“do posters really believe people don’t want to work?)”
There are people who hold every extreme position. Come to my house. I will feed you potatoes and introduce you to my neighbors who have not worked in years. The husband is an experienced meat cutter but has chosen not to work because he wants to be home for his 15 year old son. The wife works just long enough to collect unemployment as a pattern because she wants to spend time with her family. It is a lifestyle choice and it happens more than you might think. I can’t say who is right with regard to this family because the kid is a star and the parents are blissful. Of course this anecdote is not data and reflects upon no family but that one. But. A lot of people don’t want to work. Heck, I don’t want to work.</p>
<p>I’m glad you are tearing up Ba. I am considering barfing from that sack of poo.</p>
<p>“What other standardized tests can one not get out of?”</p>
<p>In NY it would be Regents exams in many subjects which one is required to take and pass but I am not sure exactly how many and what subjects are required because my private school student did not have to take any. </p>
<p>I am sure other states have similar exams.</p>
<p>Crying or barfing, one can still read what he did say. And did not.
Unless-</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>California, where Matt Damon lives, does not.</p>
<p>We have STAR testing in CA, which I guess is its NCLB equivalent. If you don’t want your child to take it, they can just stay home. There are no consequences. </p>
<p>However, I did notice that those students who sat for all of the STAR tests throughout high school received a special gold seal next to their names at graduation woo hoo! But seriously, the schools do need to incentivize the students to show up and try to do well on these tests, because the results provide a rating score for the schools, and as a parent, it does provide me with information about what my child has learned. That is why I don’t object to them.</p>
<p>“We have STAR testing in CA, which I guess is its NCLB equivalent. If you don’t want your child to take it, they can just stay home. There are no consequences.”</p>
<p>Just because you can have your child opt out does not change the fact that the teachers spend a great deal of time during the year teaching to the test. </p>
<p>I am adamantly opposed to this type of an educational model and if I had to do it all over I would send my child to private school starting in elementary and not high school like I did.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would be, too, if I objected to the subject matter being tested.</p>
<p>What content of the NY Regents or elementary exams do you object to your child being tested on?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would like to hear more about Damon’s position, as I am very pro-higher teacher salaries, but not without evaluations. Can you elaborate?</p>
<p>I think Damon’s position is that great teachers may not be the best at “teaching to the test” but they are wonderful at instilling a love of learning in kids. They encourage original thinking, exploration and creativity. So for teachers to be evaluated solely on the basis of student performance on multiple-choice tests may miss the point of what education should be all about.</p>
<p>I personally think it’s unfair for teachers to be held 100% accountable for student performance. Even if a teacher is phenomenal, he or she cannot compensate for a student who shows up hungry to school, is frequently tardy or absent, or doesn’t have parental support in the evenings to stay on top of homework and help prepare for tests.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is that what happens today? It seems to me that multiple elements are considered influential in a student’s achievement. greenbutton posted a pie-chart earlier that showed 60% was determined by outside influences.</p>
<p>As it is now, there is virtually no teacher accountability in our public schools.</p>
<p>Of course teachers need to be evaluated, however linking teachers’ evaluations and pay to their students’ testing performance has ramifications, like the major testing cheating scandals, furthermore it isn’t proven to be helpful in achieving educational goals.</p>
<p>EPI assembled a group of prominent testing experts and education policy experts to assess the research evidence on the use of test scores to evaluate teachers. It concluded that holding teacher accountable for growth in the test scores (called value-added) of their students is more harmful than helpful to children’s educations.</p>
<p>[What</a> research really says on teacher evaluation - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/what-research-really-says-on-teacher-evaluation/2012/09/16/2e9de9fa-ff44-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_blog.html]What”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/what-research-really-says-on-teacher-evaluation/2012/09/16/2e9de9fa-ff44-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_blog.html)</p>
<p>“It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.” – Einstein</p>
<p>So what is the proper way to evaluate a teacher, lindz? I am not tied to the idea of test scores being the measure (our schools don’t do this anyway). What would work better?</p>