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<p>Does your state not mandate special treatment (programs, etc) /allocation of funds for gifted and talented students as well as special needs students?</p>
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<p>Amen. Public school graduate dad with a private school graduate son. That is how Damon is not by definition a “hypocrite.”</p>
<p>I want to be clear that I am not saying that any family should eat educational scraps. What I think is that they should demand and expect and receive appropriate services within the public school system unless it is absolutely impossible for that to happen. Otherwise, pay for private school personally.</p>
<p>ZM, I do know. But clearly, no doubt in my mind, you are special- your view is broad and deep, your engagement adds many facets. In our own ways, same for Emily and me. And probably others. </p>
<p>07Dad, my district does not endorse homogeneous. Stated in writing. They begrudge a unique track at one ms and one hs and continually threaten to undo it. </p>
<p>Change has come very slowly. The state had to take over one hs (I believe there was some outside private concern that came in with a several year contract to influence the restructure) and as that one is now a partial arts magnet, it is a happier environment. </p>
<p>When we built the new public/charter hybrid hs (I was part of the planning,) one intent was to bring over the best teachers, how to determine that. The union rep sat at the same table… The school is now defunct.</p>
<p>Beliavsky, you are making the same mistake that a lot of anti-tax advocates make–that citizens should be able to pick and choose which parts of “the commons” they want to pay for. For some reason a lot of the focus is on schools rather than other things one person might use that others might not. I never hear people complain about subsidizing others’ roads and municipal services. I live in a densely populated neighborhood close to my city’s center, yet my tax dollars subsidize the McMansion dwellers in the sprawling suburban areas. Is it fair that their services cost the same as mine, even though it costs the city more to provide them? Is it right that scarce resources are spent on building roads for a relatively small number of people living in expensive subdivisions, rather than improving the heavily trafficked city streets that they commute on through my neighborhood? No, but I try to remember to look at the big picture–as people should with public schools. Remember too that in may communities, a good public school system is directly related to higher property values–meaning there is a benefit for everyone who lives there, not just those with kids in school at a given point in time.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that union busting is the great guaranteed cure for public education problems.</p>
<p>[The</a> Five States Where Teachers Unions Are Illegal Have The Lowest Test Scores In America* - Business Insider](<a href=“http://www.businessinsider.com/states-where-teachers-unions-are-illegal-2011-2]The”>The Five States Where Teachers Unions Are Illegal Have the Lowest Test Scores in America*)</p>
<p>Interesting map, no idea if it is accurate-
[View</a> Your State’s Policy on Gifted and Talented Education](<a href=“http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/StatePolicy.aspx]View”>Gifted Education in the U.S. - State Policy & Legislation - Davidson Institute)</p>
<p>I’m trying not to be anti-union, either. Each community has it’s own inherent challenges.</p>
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<p>Let’s get real: it is not the SCHOOL that is “failing,” it is the society around the school. The school is not creating the problems. It is also not able to make up for them, even though we load it with more and more responsibility to remedy social ills, burning through more and more time and money–as does excessive testing–that takes away from instructional time and resources.</p>
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<p>Special needs education is federally mandated without being federally funded. Some states require G&T education, some do not. Even where it is required, the resources devoted to it pale in comparison to special ed funding.</p>
<p>^ no idea where you live, but my community, as bad as some things are, is full of striving families. We have serious issues- and many “good folk.” As long as kids are mandated to spend x hours in a contained environment, you must also look at that environment and what the specifics do- or don’t do.</p>
<p>Interesting how many commentators (most?) on this thread, don’t actually send their kids to public high school.</p>
<p>If I lived in Pacific Palisades, the number one reason I would not send my kids to Pali High is its size. Each grade has 600-700 students. That is twice the size of ours, which I still think is a little large.</p>
<p>I thought that letter from the superintendent posted earlier about test scores, sounded like it was written by a conspiracy theorist.</p>
<p>I agree with Beliavsky about the not uncommon retention of incompetent teachers in public schools. It is pathetic in some instances.</p>
<p>“Does your state not mandate special treatment (programs, etc) /allocation of funds for gifted and talented students as well as special needs students?”</p>
<p>There was some sort of “gifted” program in my district for a few years when my son was in elementary school but they got rid of it when they realized that 80% or so of the kids were qualified (it’s like Lake Wobegon where I live.) Instead they have excellent special programs for the kids who are not excelling - one on one instruction several times a day in both math and reading. Then tracking in Math begins in 5th grade.</p>
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I did. Swore by it. Greatest thing that could have happened to that kid and she was my super-achiever. I would have loved not to pay tuition for the other two, but D1 is very gentle and soft-spoken. She would have been eaten alive. And S is not nearly enough of a self-starter to have made it through public school.</p>
<p>My kids have definitely had incompetent teachers in their public schools over the years. And I had incompetent teachers in my private school. It is not any different from any other workplace, really–there are rock stars, “good enough” performers, and substandard employees in every organization. </p>
<p>My kids’ high school is huge–600 or so kids per grade–but they divide the student body up into smaller learning communities with separate principals, guidance counselors, and so on to make it seem more manageable. It seems to work fine for most kids.</p>
<p>Incompetent people are retained in all kinds of enterprises.</p>
<p>Not to mention the fact that who is and is not incompetent is not necessarily obvious. My S had a teacher who was described to me as “the worst teacher in the school” and “hard to understand” by two separate people. Among the honors this superb teacher accrued during her classroom career were State Teacher of the Year, a NASA fellowship, and a Milliken foundation award. Oh, and just to put a cap on it, she was a graduate of one of those oft-derided state teacher’s colleges.</p>
<p>The most incompetent teachers my kids ever had were in private schools because they don’t have the certification requirements that public schools have. However, the hands-down worst teacher my kids ever had was a public school teacher who should have been but couldn’t be fired.</p>
<p>I live in an area that has a mixed bag of private schools. The top parochial schools in the area are academic and athletic powerhouses but the other religious schools are horrible. Many kids that transfer to the public school from the religious high schools require remediation classes for math and English and often end up taking a fifth year. Now that our state is handing out vouchers like candy in exchange for the private schools participating in standardized testing and rating it will be interesting to see how they fare.</p>
<p>My son had one horrible teacher in 6th grade French. She was old and mean, should have retired years ago and, obviously, could not be fired. The school was well aware of it so switched her every year between the 3 houses, so everyone had to share the pain of her teaching for only one year. I had no idea about her and tired of listening to him him constantly complaining, until one day at Mah Jongg, I was telling my friends and they all said in unison, “oooh, Mrs. Beiber.”</p>
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<p>Whenever I read things like this, it cracks me up. Whereas this teacher you refer to may in fact have been “superb,” we had one at our school who (shockingly) received the teacher of the year award. When I asked how this award was determined, I was told that the teachers nominate themselves and fill out forms to be considered. Hilarious.</p>
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<p>My son was in public until 4th grade. He was always in the Gifted and Talented program and his GT teacher was the one who told me in 2nd grade to “get him out.” However, the private schools’ application deadline for the next year had already passed so he went through 3rd grade in public school.</p>
<p>The link is to the public school he attended. It is in a state that mandates Gifted and Talented programs in all public schools and provides (partial) funding (according to the map someone posted). </p>
<p>[HPISD</a> > Departments > Talented and Gifted](<a href=“http://www.hpisd.org/Departments/TalentedandGifted.aspx]HPISD”>http://www.hpisd.org/Departments/TalentedandGifted.aspx)</p>
<p>His teachers at the private were superb educators. He got what he needed there. I agree there are private schools that are “edu-topia” (like his) and those that seem to be a cover for other agendas.</p>
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<p>Is this supposed to be a rationalization of why its okay that there are incompetent teachers retained?</p>
<p>Your child has just one chance in life to learn Geometry well; there are no do-overs in school, unless you completely fail the class. Incompetent teachers should not be tolerated, at all.</p>