McCain: A 'disturbing' observation

TerpDad · July 13, 2008, 12:33am

I’ll take short term memory loss over intentionally deceiving who I REALLY AM any day of the week. Core principles are important, something Obama lacks. Unfortunately for him it will be his downfall. It’s an undefendable position even for his most fervent supporters.The more scrutiny he undergoes the more the facade begins to crumble!

teriwtt · July 13, 2008, 1:11am

If someone has memory loss and won’t admit it, then who is doing the deceiving? The problem with memory loss is that, at that age, at best it can be stabilized. If it involves any sort of pathological dementia it will progress over eight years. Of course, there are drugs in the pipeline to address dementia disorders, but who knows when they’ll find the one that really works. Will it be in the next eight years?

cartera45 · July 13, 2008, 1:16am

Well if McCain comes to Baltimore and says he gave the names of the Baltimore Ravens, we’ll know there’s a real problem.

BedHead · July 13, 2008, 1:49am

A man’s energy and mind crumbling are more likely to disturb voters deeply than a putative facade crumbling.

The word being spread on Obama is that he’s getting more moderate after being more leftist. Whether or not one agrees with this interpretation, I find it funny that someone manifestly on the right would criticize someone for supposedly coming closer to the right. Yes, yes, I know – such criticisms are aimed at showing there is no there there with Obama, but the reality is that this is much more the case with McCain, and Republicans are really nervous about it.

bz2010 · July 13, 2008, 10:39am

mini - I think you’ve reached a new “low” in your posts! Not only is what you said the quintessential negative attack, but it is also blatantly FALSE!

There is much more to McCain than his “memory” and his experiences as a POW. How about the fact that he has been a tireless fighter against governemt waste, fraud & abuse, NEVER voting for a tax increase or pork projects for his state. How about his experiences on the various Congressional/Senate committees over 20+ years. How about his adoption of children, including an orphan from Bangladesh w/ myriad health problems. How about the fact that he was the LONE VOICE in Washington criticizing the strategy in Iraq & calling for Rumsfeld’s firing. How about the fact that he’s been to Iraq numerous times himself in order to form the most accurate assessment of the situation. How about the fact that he has two sons on Active Duty. How about the fact that after barely surviving tha horrendous fire on the USS Forrestal he VOLUNTEERED to go to the USS Oriskany and continue flying - that was way above & beyond the call of duty.

And that’s just off the top of my head! There is waaaaay more to John McCain than your erroneous portrayal, and certainly the depth & breadth of his knowledge, character & experience is The Grand Canyon compared to the thimblefull of experience the other candidate has!

You’ve really eroded your credibility w/ that last post (#20).

To further illustrate my assertions, here is the text of a recent speech given by McCain in Meridian, Mississippi during his “Service to America” tour.

Sorry this is so lengthy, but I suppose that the length further emphasizes how much there is to JSM.

John McCain’s Heritage

"Thank you. It’s good to be back in Meridian. As you might know, I was once a flight instructor here at the air field named for my grandfather during my long past and misspent youth. And it’s always good to be inMississippi, which you could call my ancestral home.

Generations of McCain’s were born and raised in Carroll County, on land that had been in our family since 1848. The last McCain to live on the property, which the family called Teoc, was my grandfather’s brother, Joe McCain. I spent a couple summers here as a young boy, and enjoyed it immensely.

I had never had a permanent address because my father’s naval career required us to move frequently. But here, in the care of my very likeable Uncle Joe, I could imagine, with a little envy, what it must have been like for the McCain’s who came before me to be so connected to one place; to be part of a community and a landscape as well as a family.

By all accounts, the McCain’s of Carroll County were devoted to one another and their traditions; a lively, proud and happy family on the Mississippi Delta. Yet, many McCain’s left here as young men to pursue careers in what has long been our family’s chosen profession – the United States Armed Forces.

My great-grandfather was the sheriff and never left. But his brother, Henry Pinkney McCain, was a major general in the Army, and organized the draft in World War One. Camp McCain in Grenada, Mississippi is named for him. My great uncle, William McCain, was known as ‘Wild Bill’ for his ‘dynamic’ personality – he was reputed to have ridden his horse onto his future father-in-law’s porch to ask him for his daughter’s hand. He chased Pancho Villa with General Pershing, was an artillery officer in World War One, and retired a Brigadier General. Both men are buried at Arlington National Cemetery, as are my father and grandfather.

We trace my family’s martial heritage back to the Revolution. A distant ancestor served on General Washington’s staff, and it seems my ancestors fought in most wars in our nation’s history. All were soldiers – both Henry and Bill McCain were West Pointers – until my grandfather broke family tradition and entered the Naval Academy in 1902. He was succeeded there by my father, then me, and then my son.

As I noted, the Naval Air Field here is named for my grandfather, who had an illustrious career in the Navy, and who remained proud of his Mississippi roots until the end of his life. I have only very early memories of him. I was just nine when he died. But he was an unforgettable man, a lively, colorful, though infrequent, presence in our lives. To spend time in his company was as much fun as a young boy could imagine. He loved his family, and we were spellbound by him. He was a slight man and gaunt, but he filled any room with his deep voice and high spirits.

He was devoted to the Navy, but in personal comportment, he was anything but regulation. He was a rumpled, informal man, who wore a crushed cap with the crown removed that the wife of one of his aviators had given him; kept his shoes off when he worked in an office; tobacco leavings were always
scattered about him, as he rolled his own with one hand; possessed a mischievous sense of humor, and was unusually close to sailors and junior
officers who served under him, and revered him. They called him, ‘Popeye;’ his family called him, ‘Sid;’ and his fellow officers, ‘Slew,’ for reasons I never learned.

After graduating from the Naval Academy, he sailed around the Philippine Islands on a gunboat captured from the Spanish, the executive officer to
the great Chester Nimitz. He returned to the United States on the USS Connecticut, the flagship of Teddy Roosevelt’s Great White Fleet. He served on an armored cruiser in the First World War, escorting wartime convoys across the U-boat infested Atlantic. In 1935, after the Navy ordered that all aircraft carrier skippers must themselves have earned their wings, he trained as a pilot. He was 52 years old at the time, and a Navy Captain. By his own admission, he never learned to fly well. A subordinate recalled later, ‘the base prayed for his safe return each time he flew.’ But he managed to earn his wings, and left Pensacola to command the naval air station in the Panama Canal Zone, where I was born. My father, Jack McCain, was an officer at a submarine base there, one of the few occasions in his adult life when he lived in close proximity to the man he admired above all others. Though they lived far apart for decades, no father and son could have been closer. My father described his father as a very great leader and people loved him. … the blood of life flowed through his veins, a man of great moral and physical courage.’ He had learned everything about leadership from his father, he said.

Both were highly individualistic men with outsize personalities, but were completely dedicated to the United States Navy. Neither ever wanted any
other life, and while both were guilty of more than a few regulation infractions, and shared a few vices, they adhered strictly to the code father had taught son: never lie, steal or cheat.

Both took a great interest in the views and well-being of the men who served under them. They believed military leaders learned as much from the people they commanded as they taught them. They were demanding, but fair and compassionate commanders. ‘We are responsible for our men,’ my father once said, ‘not the other way around. That’s what forges trust and loyalty.’ They shirked no duty, braved extraordinary dangers, and were exceptional leaders.

They were the first father and son (in our nation) to become four star admirals. My grandfather commanded the fast carrier task force in the Pacific under Admiral Halsey (during WWII), and devised many of the tactics that were employed by carriers for many years after. He was instrumental in Japan’s defeat, and was given a privileged place on the deck of the USS Missouri to witness the signing of the unconditional surrender that ended the war.

My father commanded a submarine in the Pacific during the war, survived several harrowing experiences, and had brought a Japanese submarine into
Tokyo Harbor at the time of the surrender ceremony. Both were exhausted at war’s end, but happy to have the opportunity for a brief reunion. They met onboard a submarine tender, and spent a couple of hours together. My grandfather was worn out and obviously ill. Years later, my father recalled the last words my grandfather had ever spoken to him. ‘Son, there is no greater thing than to die for the country and principles that you believe in.’

After father and son parted that afternoon, my grandfather began the long trip home to Coronado. Not long after he arrived, at a homecoming party, he turned to my grandmother and announced he did not feel well. He died a moment later of a heart attack. He had fought his war and died in service to the country he believed in.

My father could not return to the States in time for the funeral. My mother found him waiting for her to return to California from the funeral in Washington, weeping on the airport tarmac. In time, my father, the son of a legendary naval leader, would rise to an even greater command than his father had. During the Vietnam War, he commanded all U.S. forces in the Pacific, at the top of a chain of command that included, near the bottom, his son, a naval aviator on Yankee Station in the Tonkin Gulf and later a prisoner of war in Hanoi.

My father seldom spoke of my captivity to anyone outside the family, and never in public. He prayed on his knees every night for my safe return. He would spend holidays with the troops in Vietnam near the DMZ. At the end of his visit, he would walk alone to the base perimeter and look north toward the city where I was held. Yet, when duty required it, he gave the order for B-52’s to bomb Hanoi in close proximity to my prison.

I have lived a blessed life, and the first of my blessings was the family I was born into. I had not only the example of my distinguished male relations, and their long tradition of military service. I was fortunate to grow up under the influence of strong, capable, accomplished women. First among them, my mother, the formidable Roberta McCain; her identical twin, Rowena; my strict and imposing paternal grandmother, Catherine; and equally impressive maternal grandmother, Myrtle.

For much of my childhood, my mother was the parent who raised me, my sister and brother. My father was often at sea, and she bore all the
responsibilities of both parents. She moved us from base to base, often driving us across country on her own; managed our household; paid the bills; saw to our education and religious upbringing; and made of our itinerant childhood, an interesting, exciting time, rich with fascinating experiences. She was and is a resilient woman, extroverted, uncomplaining, forthright and determined, who greets every challenge as an opportunity to measure one’s strength of character and learn about the wider world beyond our immediate environment.

The family I was born to, and the family I am blessed with now, made me the man I am, and instilled in me a deep and abiding respect for the social institution that wields the greatest influence in the formation of our individual character and the character of our society. I may have been raised in a time when government did not dare to assume the responsibilities of parents, but I am a father in a time when parents worry that threats to their children’s well-being are proliferating and undermining the values they have worked to impart to them.

That is not to say that government should dictate to parents how to raise their children or assume from parents any part of that most personal and
important responsibility. No government is capable of caring for children as attentively and wisely as the mother and father who love them. But government must be attentive to the impact of its policies on families so that it does not - through inattention or arrogance - make it harder for parents to have the resources to succeed in the greatest work of their lives – raising their children. And where government has a role to play, in education, in combating the threats to the security and happiness of children from online predators, in helping to make health care affordable and accessible to the least fortunate among us, it must do so urgently, effectively and wisely.

Tax policy must not rob parents of the means to care for their children and provide them the opportunities their parents provided them. Government spending must not be squandered on things we do not need and can’t afford, and which don’t address a single American’s concern for their family’s security.

Government can’t just throw money at public education while reinforcing the failures of many of our schools, but should, through choice and competition, by rewarding good teachers and holding bad teachers accountable, help parents prepare their children for the challenges and opportunities of the global economy.

Government must be attentive to the impact on families of parents who have lost jobs in our changing economy that won’t come back. Our programs for displaced workers are antiquated, repetitive and ineffective. Many were designed for a time when unemployment was seasonal or a temporary
consequence of an economic downturn. Not for a time when systemic changes wrought by the growing global economy have, while promising undreamt of opportunities for ourselves and many historically poor societies, have cost too many parents the jobs they had assumed would be theirs for life.

With the loss of work and the resources it provides families, come just as injurious losses to the emotional health of families. Work provides more than an income. It is a source of self-worth, pride and sense of purpose. Children learn as much from observation as instruction. The mother or father who has lost hope along with their job can unintentionally impart that hopelessness to their children. A welfare check can’t give a parent a sense of purpose. And among the most important things children can inherit from their parents is a sense of purpose, and an aspiration to be part of something bigger than
themselves. My parents taught me that, and I will always be indebted to
them. 

But like many young people, I didn’t understand the lesson very well until later in life when I needed it most. As a boy, my family legacy, as fascinating as it was to me, often felt like an imposition. I knew from a very early age that I was destined for Annapolis and a career in the Navy. In reaction, I often rebelled in small and petty ways to what I perceived as an encroachment on my free will. I concede that I remember the unruly passions of youth, and how they governed my immature sense of honor and self-respect. As I grew older, and the challenges to my self-respect grew more varied and serious, I was surprised to discover that while my sense of honor had matured, its defense mattered even more to me than it did when it was such a vulnerable thing that any empty challenge threatened it.

Like most people, when I reflect on the adventures and joys of youth, I feel a longing for what is lost and cannot be restored. But though the happy pursuits of the young prove ephemeral, something better can endure,and endure until our last moment of life. And that is the honor we earn and the love we give when we work and sacrifice with others for a cause greater than our self-interest. For me that cause has long been our country. I am a lucky, lucky man to have found it, and am forever grateful to those who showed me the way. What they gave me was much more valuable and lasting than the tribute I once paid to vanity.

I am the son and grandson of admirals. My grandfather was an aviator; my father a submariner. They were my first heroes, and their respect for me has been one of the most lasting ambitions of my life. They gave their lives to their country, and taught me lessons about honor, courage, duty, perseverance and leadership that I didn’t fully grasp until later in life, but remembered when I needed them most. I have been an imperfect servant of my country for many years. But I am their son, and they showed me how to love my country, and that has made all the difference for me, my friends, all the difference in the world."

mapesy · July 13, 2008, 11:42am

Whether McCain’s “memory loss” is actually lying, pandering, or mild cognitive impairment, it’s certainly troubling. I guess pandering is the best hope.

I totally agree with teriwtt’s statement in post #19: “the difference is that when McCain makes those mistakes, it’s hard to know if it’s due to campaign fatigue or some sort of mild dementia due to his age.”

More “memory lapse” examples:

John McCain Has Selective Memory About Global Warming Efforts
[John</a> McCain has selective memory about global warming efforts - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-trailmccain15-2008may15,0,3805854.story]John”>McCain leaves rivals out)

McCain Claims He Knew Iraq War Would Be “Long and Hard and Tough”, Contradicting Pre-War Statements
[Think</a> Progress McCain Claims He Knew Iraq War Would Be ‘Long And Hard And Tough,’ Contradicting Pre-War Statements](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/04/mccain-iraq-easy/]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/04/mccain-iraq-easy/)

McCain Missed Iran Vote He Attacked Obama for Skipping
[McCain</a> Missed Iran Vote He Attacked Obama For Skipping - Politics on The Huffington Post](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>McCain Missed Iran Vote He Attacked Obama For Skipping | HuffPost Latest News)

Clinton Blasts McCain’s 9th Ward Remarks
(McCain claimed he didn’t remember remarks he made about tearing down the 9th Ward.)
[Washington</a> Wire - WSJ.com : Clinton Blasts McCain’s Ninth Ward Remarks](<a href=“http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/04/24/clinton-blasts-mccains-ninth-ward-remarks/]Washington”>http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/04/24/clinton-blasts-mccains-ninth-ward-remarks/)

McCain claims he “supported every investigation” into the government’s role regarding Hurricane Katrina, when in fact he twice voted against an independent commission.
[FactCheck.org:</a> Katrina Kerfuffle](<a href=“http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/katrina_kerfuffle.html]FactCheck.org:”>http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/katrina_kerfuffle.html)

McCain tries to take credit for GI bill he opposed.
[Think</a> Progress Bush And McCain Try To Steal Credit For Webb’s GI Bill That They Consistently Worked To Defeat](<a href=“http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/19/mccain-bush-gi-bill/]Think”>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/19/mccain-bush-gi-bill/)

cartera45 · July 13, 2008, 11:50am

He also “forgot” the date his divorce became final. If he had forgotten it for a few more weeks, he would have been a bigamist.

bz - that speech did more to prove mini’s characterization than not.

bz2010 · July 13, 2008, 4:33pm

Sheesh - if you were involved in as many and as varied issues as JSM has been over several decades, I’m sure you’d get confused on more than JSM has! Given his lengthy record, I’m quite surprized there aren’t more “slips”!

c45 - how in the world can you claim that a lengthy speech addressing only McCain’s “heritage” prove’s mini’s “claim” that there is nothing more to McCain than his memory & experiences as a POW??

Also, mapesy, McCain DID support the G.I. Bill in the form that benefits increased as time-in-service increased & included transferability. He certainly can take credit for supporting the G.I. Bill, regardless of the final form.

You gotta get your news from sources other than rabid left-wing rags like “thinkprogress” and “Huffington Post”! A little objectivity is a good thing!

And please take note, when I post links to back up my assertions, I try very hard to use bi-partisan/objective sources. Partisan propaganda undermines one’s credibility on this forum, imo.

mblackm8 · July 13, 2008, 5:31pm

This is terribly disturbing to read, lol!

spideygirl · July 13, 2008, 6:50pm

teriwit:

I haven’t read every post in this thread, but if the insinuation here has something to do with McCain’s age and an accusation of potential dementia (which is what appears to be the case), then that is age discrimination plain and simple (as serious as any other form of discrimination - it should be condemned as such).

mapesy · July 13, 2008, 7:28pm

Those sources are just as credible as the WSJ, which I also linked.

teriwtt · July 13, 2008, 7:34pm

the accusation isn’t of potential dementia; it’s of current dementia. He has exhibited signs that cannot be determined whether they’re from a rigorous campaign schedule or not. If they’re not from the campaign schedule, then another explanation needs to be considered. For someone of his age, with those symptoms, dementia would be one of the first things a physician would want to rule out (amongst depression, stress, hardening of the arteries, and a whole laundry list that could explain lapses of memory in someone his age). If it were our loved ones who were exhibiting forgetfulness and lapses of memory, all of us would be encouraging them to meet with their physician for a diagnosis, especially if they were the same age as McCain.

bz2010 · July 13, 2008, 7:45pm

So that’s even fewer credible sources?
I don’t think you’re helping your case.

SuNa · July 13, 2008, 7:53pm

With all of John McCain’s genuine experience of the horrors of war, I would like to know why he could not see through the b.s. (I could) about the “need” to take our country into Iraq.

I would also like to know why, seeing as he could soon become the most powerful man in the world, he has made a comment about killing Iranians. Doesn’t he realize how that plays in that country, reinforcing our “Great Satan” image, allowing the Iranian govt. to puff itself up as the protector of its people, fueling the argument that the U.S. is out to destroy Islam.

I know that everyone slips up and makes mistakes, but this comment seems indicative of deeper feelings that indicate a distressing lack of insight into foreign mindsets.

ohn McCain has changed a lot of his major views now that he is the Republican nominee. I guess all politicians do that, and I mean Obama, too.

I am also disturbed that John McCain doesn’t know how to operate a computer. Surely there are others who can do that for him, but I think it says something about his mindset. Shouldn’t he learn how, if only to appear a man of the twenty-first century? Having recently elected a man who hadn’t bothered to visit Europe until he became president, I hope that this time, we can thoroughly vet and come to understand our candidates.

mapesy · July 13, 2008, 8:14pm

I’m actually not trying to. I don’t care about the analysis–just the facts.

If you’re really interested, you can find dozens and dozens of links for any one of McCain’s “memory lapses.” Several of them can also be found on YouTube, where McCain himself speaks and later contradicts himself.

LongPrime · July 13, 2008, 8:38pm

All I am concerned about is that he knows and remembers the important stuff. We’ve had a President(s) who knew little and remembered nothing, and we honored and revered them, re-elect them, and even follow their orders to our detriment. We have no qualms in keeping who we got now even though many of us question his capacity.

For as many questions that a candidate gets in a short period of time and changes in the world, how does one keep current and remember what one said just a few days ago.

pmrlcomm · July 13, 2008, 9:23pm

McCain is a 1-term candidate. That’s why Hillary was trying to submarine Obama. She knew if McCain won then she would be able to run again in 4 years. If Obama won it was likely 8 years and lights out for her. The most important thing to me right now is who McCain choosed as his veep. If he chooses wisely it will allay a lot of the fears about his age. If he chooses well enough there will be some who hope medical problems may shorten his term…

teriwtt · July 13, 2008, 10:08pm

I couldn’t agree with you any more. I think people are so much more in tune to dementia/Alzheimer’s problems than they were in Reagan’s era. I always thought it was so courageous of Nancy to speak out against their party’s platform, which was so anti-stem cell research. Watching someone decline from this illness compels many to look at it from a different perspective.

LongPrime · July 14, 2008, 12:28am

^
^^

we just went thru a 9 month long selection process and you are going to vote on the candidate who has the best VP? Why don’t you vote for the VP and forget about who is President. Currently, we got a VP who is actually the President so I guess the process can work.

teriwtt · July 14, 2008, 12:33am

longprime - I didn’t say I was voting Republican, but you’d better be certain I am very interested and concerned about who he selects as his VP (given his age and health issues) in case he does win.

McCain: A 'disturbing' observation

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