<p>in case anyone was curious, here’s a really great summary of food policy and the way we should eat from that master of human diet, Michael Pollan. vegetarianism ftw.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html</a></p>
<p>funny stuff.</p>
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<p>I’ve owned Botany of Desire since the first time that guy went on the Daily Show (which was when Omnivore’s Dilemma came out, so 2006). I’ve still not read it. Nonfiction that’s not about Russian history = bleh.
Honestly though, he seems like a cool guy. I remember that I thought he was quite intelligent and sensible. I was so old them. I’m younger than that now.</p>
<p>@millancad</p>
<p>wootz! I’ve been trying to get my hands on “Botany of Desire” but I read “In defense of food” after the farmer in chief article came out in the ny times magazine last winter, and it was pretty incredible.</p>
<p>I give the topic creator a 9.5/10 for satire, because he actually had me going for a while.</p>
<p>@elchagas</p>
<ol>
<li>Nice use of logical fallacies. (Of course, I too made a few in some previous posts.)
a) “as someone who has been a vegetarian since birth” is by no means a great appeal to ethos.
b) You make claims without any supporting evidents.
c) You used a clever understatement to avoid the discussion.</li>
<li>Michael Pollan is not a vegan. What he says is useful for the individual consumer who can afford that kind of lifestyle. What he does is not all that different from what I do. He is simply rich enough to buy all organic things and had the opportunity to hunt feral pigs.
I don’t think he criticizes meat, he simply does not like the current industrial methods. He basically says that he hates corn and likes organic. This neither approves nor goes against vegetarianism.
Also, his suggestions are impossible to be applied by the average people. It’s not practical for healthily maintaining a large population. Overall, he knows much more than me about this topic, but just because you’ve read something by him doesn’t mean that you should assume that others don’t know anything.
I’m not ignorant, sometimes I don’t even agree with what I say, but it’s interesting to look at different perspectives to discover the truth. Actually, I’d like to have such awkward discussions with you at Harvard. It would be great fun! (Pretty sure I’m qualified to get in, considering that I got into several other “prestigious” colleges.) </li>
<li>I am repulsed by “juicy, bloody meat,” but I understand that an intake of meat is good and organic would be optimal.</li>
<li>I do not have meat every meal. I eat less “fake meat” than the average American and more vegetables than the average vegetarian. </li>
<li>Sometimes I accidentally skip meals when I’m busy studying. If I don’t remind myself to eat, I’d probably become vegetarian. In fact, sometimes people at school think I’m vegetarian when a bag of meat is not accompanying my bag of vegetables/fruits.</li>
<li>I care more about the idea that meat is an important part of human diet than if I eat any in practice. If I don’t actively remind myself, I’d probably not realize that I haven’t had meat for a day.</li>
<li>From Wikipedia: “Pollan holds that consumption of fat and dietary cholesterol do not lead to a higher rate of coronary disease, and that the reductive analysis of food into nutrient components is a flawed paradigm. He questions the view that the point of eating is to promote health, pointing out that this attitude is not universal and that cultures that perceive food as having purposes of pleasure, identity, and sociality may end up with better health. He explains this seeming paradox by vetting then validating the notion that nutritionism and, therefore, the whole Western framework through which we intellectualize the value of food is more a religious and faddish devotion to the mythology of simple solutions than a convincing and reliable conclusion of incontrovertible scientific research. Pollan spends the rest of his book explicating his first three phrases: “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” He contends that most of what Americans now buy in supermarkets, fast food stores, and restaurants is not in fact food, and that a good practical tip would be to eat only those things that people of his grandmother’s generation would have recognized as food.”
Surprise. I agree with everything in that passage. What you think I want is not what I want. It is not real food. Hahahaha! Your representative for vegetarianism has back fired.
The key is to take what you can from materials you have read and make it your own, not to become a mindless clone. I’m sure I could have an awesome intellectual conversation with Mr. Pollan. You don’t have to resort to insults either.</li>
<li>Just by looking at the length of our small intestines, you can conclude that we are not naturally vegetarian. Meat is more readily digested and absorbed.</li>
<li>The true problem of the idea of “meatless Monday” is that it confuses people into thinking that it takes away rights. If it’s just a recommendation, I would simply be annoyed. If they make some really good points, I might even support it. If they make things really restrictive, then I do have problems with them.</li>
<li>If you bothered to read the whole thing, you must be bored and confused at the same time. :)</li>
</ol>
<p>[Jonathan</a> Swift - A Modest Proposal](<a href=“http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html]Jonathan”>Jonathan Swift - A Modest Proposal)</p>
<p>This thread reminds me of this wonderfully written, classic article :)</p>
<p>First, meatless mondays still serve meat, they just encourage you not to eat it. And only some houses do it.</p>
<p>Regardless, you should be aware that Scott Jurek, probably the greatest ultra-marathon runner to have ever lived, is vegan. He runs hundreds of miles through death valley in 130 degree heat on just plain, regular veggies and tofu. If he remains healthy, I kind of doubt that not eating meat for one day a week will “keep you from reaching your full potential.”</p>
<p>As a side-note, I stopped eating meat about a month and a half ago, and continue to feel great. I run and lift-weights 6-7 days a week.</p>
<p>hey grouptheory. </p>
<p>I’m really glad you spent what was clearly a substantial amount of time and thought picking apart my response. you sure showed me!</p>
<p>I could go on and on about vegetarianism and it’s benefits but I would rather do so in person. so I choose not to enter this ego game via the internet. I’m not going to spend an hour composing a clever rebuttal to try to change your opinion however archaic and under informed I find it to be. </p>
<p>I admit that I perhaps didn’t make myself clear in my original post. I cited michael pollan, not as a “champion of vegetarianism” but as a master of diet and food policy. I’ve read the book and I’ve read the article, thanks, so I know who I’m citing and I’m not doing it mindlessly. I thought that I would try to to open your eyes to another side of the university push for vegetarianism; the effect of our eating habits on the environment, which I am tempted to believe is a more major motivating factor than merely taking away your personal right to eat meat. </p>
<p>however, this cc argument is stupid anyway because I think that you were just trying to stir the pot in your original post. I mean, you just wrote “I care more about the idea that meat is an important part of human diet than if I eat any in practice. If I don’t actively remind myself, I’d probably not realize that I haven’t had meat for a day.” and “I do not have meat every meal.” if both those statements were true, then one meatless night a week wouldn’t be such a huge deal to you.</p>
<p>There seems to be a wide variety of choices in the D halls. My son has absolutely no issue at all with the food at Harvard. He always finds something he likes and actually thinks it tastes good :)</p>
<p>@grouptheory
seriously get a life, one minute detail like that will have no physical effect on your well being. are you telling me you eat a completely balanced diet? what about hindu vegetarians, typecasting and statistically i’d say theyre faiiiirly intelligent haha, you just made it a huge psychological problem for yourself kudos ;)</p>