<p>norcalguy:</p>
<p>Do you happen to have a link that shows michigan gpa and mcat relationship. I would love to see that. Thanks.</p>
<p>Lem:</p>
<p>One of the biggest reasons the Cal States have such a low grad rate is economics. Finaid is poor, so many students have to work a lot of hours to go to school. Secondly, ~half of the entering Frosh at Cal State require remediation, either in math or English or both. Since the students are in essence repeating HS coursework – and paying for the privilege – it s nearly impossible for them to graduate in four years.</p>
<p>fwiw: our HS uses the same book for AP Physics as does Harvard & MIT…</p>
<p>[UM</a> :: The Career Center :: Students :: Pre-Medicine :: Medical School Application :: UM Application Statistics](<a href=“http://www.careercenter.umich.edu/students/med/medappstats2009.html]UM”>http://www.careercenter.umich.edu/students/med/medappstats2009.html)</p>
<p>The statistics aren’t necessarily pretty but I respect the fact UMich does not try to hide its data.</p>
<p>norcalguy: Thanks for the link. I feel much better. :)</p>
<p>I realize there was only one in the Michigan data but what medical school in the U.S. would accept an applicant with a 2.60-2.79 GPA and an MCAT score of under 20?</p>
<p>I believe NCG posted this link in the past (or maybe for a different year) but I posted this link again for anyone who would like to refer to it:</p>
<p><a href=“Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University”>Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University;
<p>And this link (Thanks to Colleges00701):</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.career.emory.edu/parents/pdf/Applicants_Emory_2010_Matrix.pdf[/url]”>http://www.career.emory.edu/parents/pdf/Applicants_Emory_2010_Matrix.pdf</a></p>
<p>Nationally, it appears that roughly 30 students per year are admitted to medical school with a sub-18 MCAT score.
<a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf</a></p>
<p>Of 89 over three years, 83 reported as Black, Hispanic, or American Indian.
<a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/157590/data/table25-hbn-mcatgpa-grid-0810.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/157590/data/table25-hbn-mcatgpa-grid-0810.pdf</a></p>
<hr>
<p>For sub-20 scores, there were 620 admissions, 541 of whom reported as Black, Hispanic, or American Indian.</p>
<p>Oh, and in the specific bracket LeMaitre is discussing: Nationally, 22 such students entered medical school over the past three years. 20 reported as URM.</p>
<p>Lemaitre1,
“You are implying that courses at elite schools are more rigorous than other schools and I am not sure that is the case.”</p>
<ul>
<li>I second your opinion based on my D.'s experience at state UG. How anybody can compare anyway? The only way to compare would be taking the same class at the same time at 2 different schools. It is not possible. At D’s state school, kids who would have been at Ivy’s if they wanted to apply there (valedictorians from private prep, schools who decided to attend state college) were greatly challenged in all science classes. Their talent was NOT enough to survive in pre-med track. The ones who succeeded had to work extremely hard for their top grades. It was huge eye opener for all (including my D.) and a change in carrer path for some of these top caliber kids in Honors program (qualifications: ACT=32+, top 2% of HS class).</li>
</ul>
<p>
</p>
<p>As NCG has already discussed, the most relevant way to compare is by comparing grades and standardized test scores. The gap in grades is almost always smaller than the gap in test scores.</p>
<p>BDM, Well, if it has been decided.
In my opinion, gap in test scores could be explained by filtering by pre-med advisory committee. I do not think that much of filtering going on at state schools. It could be more at elite colleges, they are more into maintaining their “prestige” status that going along with % of accepted to Med. Schools. I personally do not trust any of this statistics and still believe that the only way to compare is to sit thru the same classes at 2 different schools which is not possible. Published statistics about anything could be manipulated, I do not take it seriously. “Garbage in, garbage out” is applicable to statistics as well as inputs to computer system. Others might have different opinion, the more we have the better for discussion.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Another point that NCG has often brought up is that if you look at MDapplicants, you will see tons of kids who have 3.2 gpas at top 10 schools (kids who should have been filterd out by their pre-med committees) still managing to pull of 35+ on their mcats. The same cannot be said for lower-ranked schools.</p>
<p>
I don’t understand why everybody keeps claiming this happens widely. It doesn’t.</p>
<p>And in any case, you can just as easily do the analysis with incoming SAT scores. The same sort of thing applies.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve read on cc that Hopkins does filter out low-chance applicants, but who else does? (I personally haven’t heard of any…)</p>
<p>Colleges: why should anyone be filtered out? Yes, they should receive good counseling, but not prohibited from applying. Perhaps that 3.2/28 ain’t even close for admissions to an Allopathic med school for a Calif resident, but maybe DO is a good possibility. But yet the senior wants to apply to allopathic first to see what happens. After rejection, a DO maybe looking a lot better, no?</p>
<p>In any case the numbers show the same thing in law school admissions, where schools aren’t capable of filtering their kids.</p>
<p>DS goes to a top university and I have never heard from him that the school is filtering out any medical school applicants. Some students had filtered themselves out after a few years in the school by choosing different career paths, maybe finding out the pre-med track was too hard or it was not what they enjoyed. </p>
<p>It is simply untrue that the top schools need to maintain certain percentage to make themselves look good. As a matter of fact, they really don’t care since they don’t need that anyway.</p>
<p>Even Hopkins doesn’t officially screen, although they basically do. (They will give you a recommendation if you demand one, but it will be negative.) One of the LACs – was it Middlebury? – claims to do a little bit of screening.</p>
<p>Those are literally the only two examples we’ve ever confirmed on this board.</p>
<p>The idea of top schools needing to be more aggressive in weeding out is purely a myth. If you look at the # of medical school applicants these schools produce (usually around 300 for a typical top 20 university), around 40%-50% of freshman premeds make it to the application stage. That is actually a very healthy percentage.</p>
<p>There’s no definitive proof that top universities are more difficult than non-top universities mainly because no one’s releasing their data. But, I think there are certainly some things which suggest that, despite grade inflation, it is still harder to achieve an A at a top university than it is at a state school.</p>
<p>*… so every single school in the country is “inflated” under your definition? Is this still a useful definition? *</p>
<p>I’ve asked this before…</p>
<p>Are you calling “grade inflation” a situation where a class has a whole bunch of smarties in in who take exam and all score about the same…so it’s logical that a whole bunch would emerge with A’s?</p>
<p>Or </p>
<p>Are you calling grade inflation a situation where kids are getting a wide range of scores on exams, yet the prof has such a low threshold for getting an A, that a bunch of kids are getting A’s who did not routinely score highly on exams?</p>
<p>If it’s the former, then it’s not a problem. If it’s the latter than it is.</p>
<p>*One of the biggest reasons the Cal States have such a low grad rate is economics. Finaid is poor, so many students have to work a lot of hours to go to school. Secondly, ~**half of the entering Frosh at Cal State require remediation, either in math or English or both. Since the students are in essence repeating HS coursework – and paying for the privilege **-- it s nearly impossible for them to graduate in four years.
*</p>
<p>For as long as I can remember, the LA Times and the OC Register have highlighted this problem on an annual basis in the fall. </p>
<p>Why the heck hasn’t anyone insisted that these kids agree to taking a summer school class at a CC if they want to enter a UC or Cal State in the fall? </p>
<p>If anything, these kids could be given a “delayed spring admission” if they won’t/can’t take a summer class. </p>
<p>Re: Financial aid…FA for Calif publics is actually quite good for those with low incomes/very low EFCs. The problem occurs for those in the income ranges that are over the limits for Cal Grants, Blue and Gold, Pell, and the Cal State equivalent to Blue and Gold (can’t remember the name).</p>
<p>The entire Blue and Gold award process is INSANE…it is based purely on one income threshold…regardless of family size, regardless of number of kids in college, regardless of the number of adults in the home (necessary adult expenses are considered to be higher than children’s).</p>
<p>1) A family of 2 people (one parent, one child) with an income of $69k, gets free tuition for their child.</p>
<p>2) BUT…a family of 6 (2 parents, 4 kids) with 2 at a UC, and with an income of $85k, won’t get this free tuition benefit. </p>
<p>3) And…a young married couple (no kids), with an income of $65k, with one of the spouses going to a UC, gets free tuition. </p>
<p>What the heck? </p>
<p>Certainly families #1 and #3 are in much better financial situations then family #2. Yet, family #2 gets no Blue and Gold. That’s just crazy.</p>
<p>How insane that they don’t have a graduated formula based on family size, number of adults in the family, and number of kids in college. Simply crazy. Qualifying for B&G should be tied to FAFSA EFC…because that formula does take all of those things into acct.</p>