<p>bill0510 you keep on talking about martial law etc. to achieve a victory, what exactly do you define as victory?</p>
<p>“give-away conservatism” probably is a contradiction of terms. Unfortunately, that is what the Republican party has become. The American jihadis have hijacked the Republican party in the quest for moral conservatism at the expense of fiscal conservatism. [sort of like those that have, supposedly, hijacked muslimabadism]
Despite twenty + years of voting for Republican presidential candidates, this is why, absent a McCain presidency, I will not longer do so.
In many circumstances, all one has to do is be against abortion and homosexuals to gain the suburban Republican vote. The voters don’t seem to care if you have any plan for fiscal conservatism, health care [did you see the study that places the health of Britains, despite spending one-half of what we do, as better than Americans], smaller government, etc., etc., etc. </p>
<p>Victory in Iraq? I don’t think it can be defined within the amount of time or writing I am willing to devote. While a “democratically elected government” sounds good in theory, the fact is we may end up with an Iraqi government, democratically elected, that is still anti-American. Hardly worth the cost in lives.</p>
<p>So . . . I suppose victory would be a pro-American, democratically-elected government that provides the U.S. with all the oil it wants and ready access to military bases as needed. Call it a puppet-government if you want. A mid-east version of Japan would be nice. Maybe South Korea. Victory to me, at this point, is whatever you want to call it that results in the fewest more American casualties. Would it be a tragedy to leave now? Sure. But the way we are conducting this occupation for the moment is not a winning combination.</p>
<p>It will, however, take a lot more guns, guts, and dollars to get there than we appear to be committing. Just as it did in the SE Asia countries.</p>
<p>Z. You’ve come a long way, there is still hope for you. The poor and minorities are held down as a result of many institutional barriers. Some created by liberals who just throw money at problems without any true recognition of the problem. * [The answer to everything is not to give people more money or require that everybody be taught to the mean; sometimes excellent people deserve more help than lazy people.]* Some created by conservatives that have no appreciation for the true barriers that exist. * [They think everything is solved by hard work. While, yes, a great deal of one’s problems can be solved by hard work, sometimes it just takes money.] * The one thing I would ask you to really consider is that this notion of a media conspiracy just doesn’t exist as you paint it and that there is no realistic alternative. Reporters are human beings, there is no way that a bias of some type won’t creep into their writings. As Hearst [?] used to say, you don’t like the way we report the news, start your own paper. The real problem is that most readers won’t take the time to truly understand issues and the dynamics that surround them.</p>
<p>Finally, I don’t think many would consider 1994 to be the truly liberal apogee that you suggest. I think many would consider Clinton to have been one of the most conservative Democrats elected in recent history. He and the Congress of the time would hardly be considered liberal compared to, considering the times, some of the liberal warhorses of the 60s and the 40s. Civil rights legislation? The new society? </p>
<p>Bush? He is the moral conservative that many wanted. Nobody considered whether he could govern.</p>
<p>You want this “So . . . I suppose victory would be a pro-American, democratically-elected government that provides the U.S. with all the oil it wants and ready access to military bases as needed.” </p>
<p>A democratically elected governent has to have the support of the people. And if you plan on doing this " Declare Marshall law, basically shoot the hell out of anybody that gets in the troops’ way, bomb the hell out of the rest of them, show them who’s boss, and then get the hell out of there."</p>
<p>How in the hell would that bring a pro-American government. Is this making sense to anyone?</p>
<p>And by the way moral conservatism is a joke. Fiscal conservatism may have some value but people who run to the ballots whenever they see a vote about gay marriage or abortion is a fool. It’s funny how Bush spent the months after 9-11 chippering like a parrot “They hate us for our freedom, They hate us for our freedom” and then his “moral” conservative crowd thinks the best way to show them we have freedom is by restricting marriage and the right of a woman to control her reproductive health. Anyone who thinks that gay marriage and abortion are pressing issues that have to stopped need to blow some air-holes in that bubble they live in.</p>
<p>“The middle-east culture only respects force [that is why Saddam was in power for so long], anything less is considered weakness. This half-baked, yes, politically correct, effort we are making is just a Vietnamese path to accomplishing nothing. THAT is why I say that young people are dying for nothing.”</p>
<p>Bill, didn’t you say you are a lawyer. Isn’t such a broad statemnt like Middle Easterns only respect force when there are like 300 million different people in that region like very stupid.If you made such a statement in a courthouse you’d be disbarred. THat’s like saying the North American culture is naive. Such wild generalizations are so stupid. The reason Saddam was in power for so long was because America put it in power.</p>
<p>
Yep.</p>
<p>
“American jihadis”? Don’t you think that’s a bit of a stretch?</p>
<p>
Supposedly? </p>
<p>
You’re not alone. In many ways, the only reason I still vote GOP is because I cannot stomach the idea of Confused and his DNC buddies having power again, because that would REALLY be bad. “Lesser of two evils”, and all that. Pathetic, but there it is…</p>
<p>Sadly, however, I think your faith in McCain is misplaced. Even now, he is RUNNING to the right in order to be acceptable to the base. A true maverick wouldn’t care.</p>
<p>
All true, but I’m afraid that if Britains are healthier than us, it isn’t because of their healthcare system, which is breaking down. The proof is that they now have hopsitals where you pay to get what you want done, or they come over here. Socialized medicine doesn’t work. I’ve seen it in the military. Now imagine it without the rank and discipline structure needed to make it work.</p>
<p>
In many ways, I agree. I for one would have defined “victory” on 9/12 as “a smoldering radioactive hole in the ground, sterilized for eons”, but that’s just me. I can assure you my version is far more easy to measure than what we’re trying to do now, no matter how noble it is.</p>
<p>
I’ve not come a long way in any direction. I’ve always been here. Where I completely lose it is when idiots like Clueless here start spouting their completely REDICULOUS tripe, and then the DNC picks it up and runs with it. </p>
<p>
Okay. It takes money. I agree. However, where I part company is the government coming up to me, grabbing me by the throat, and ordering me on pain of imprisonment to give MY hard-earned money to a bunch of people who don’t deserve it. If I did that to you, I would be accused of theft. If the government does it, it’s called “compassion”. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
Sorry, but on this I call BS. The leftist bias in the media is both obvious and well-documented. Does it rise to the level of “conspiracy”? Probably not, in that the CEO of the AP doesn’t call the CEO of CNN to coordinate the news stories. However, when you have polls showing that 90%+ of journalists admit to being liberal, you cannot ignore that they are feeding us only one side of the story. Further proof is in the apoplectic fit the Left has every time Fox News (which is definitely not liberal, but also definitely not some exclusive bastion of the Right Wing) is mentioned. Alternatives exist, but there are so many that it’s next to impossible to tell who is on the take.</p>
<p>
They tried to socialize 1/7 of the U.S. economy, for heaven’s sake! The backblast from that, followed by the 1994 election, is all that kept Hillary and that hormone-sopped but well-spoken sleazeball of a President from doing any more damage than they did!</p>
<p>Clinton, conservative? Sheesh! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
Well, he’s not all that socially conservative, either. His signing of that CFR law was simply insane. While I give him some leeway due to the circumstances that popped up unexpectedly, I think that he’s fallen short in many areas and been tarred with a bunch of stuff that really wasn’t his fault.</p>
<p>Some of what he’s messing up NOW, though (like immigration) is simply inexcusable.</p>
<p>I really, REALLY miss Reagan, and no, he wasn’t perfect either, but as close as I think we’re ever likely to get.</p>
<p>I did not say that bombing the hell out of them would bring about a democratically elected government. Those statements were made in two different posts and were not even remotely connected. [Then again, that is your habit isn’t it . . . try to connect two statements so as to support whatever the hell the point is that you are trying to make.]
Now that you point it out, however, I don’t care if the government is democratically elected. Makes no difference to me as long as the government is pro-American and keeps the oil pipeline flowing. See Saudi Arabia.</p>
<p>I don’t think the statment is “like” stupid at all; and, no, making such a generalization in the courthouse would not get me disbarred. Generalizations are made in the courthouse all the time. That’s how you influence people . . . by appealing to what they understand the facts to be. Frequently, it doesn’t matter what the facts are, it only matters what the jury believes them to be. Beside, when you consider that the most stable governments througout the middle east are those that are the most repressive, well then the statement is relatively accurate.</p>
<p>Since you like to quote: “The reason Saddam was in power for so long was because America put it in power.” First, Saddam was a person, not an “it.” But that’s okay, I make mistakes typing also. Second, while the U.S. may have put it [sic] in power, we did very little to support him over time. Installing one into a position of power is not the same, despite your weak assertion, as keeping a person in power.</p>
<p>That’s enough, time for this old man to go to bed so I can go to court tomorrow and be disbarred for making statements that are similar to being stupid but are not actually stupid. As in “like” stupid statements. I gotta admit, that’s the first I have ever seen of using the word “like” as a placeholder in a written statement. Would hate to “like” hear you “like” talk.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Preach it, brother.</p>
<p>Dude! You and I on the same side? END TIMES! :eek:</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>I wouldn’t care if there weren’t enough people to constitute a country or justify a government, either. Fewer headaches that way.</p>
<p>ETA: Oh, and Bill? I just realized that I may have been a bit rude in my last post. I appreciate that you think there’s hope for me yet. Perhaps what I need work on is the way I express myself. I think you and I (and Shogun, if I may take the liberty) are probably a lot closer on many issues than some of our past discussions may have indicated.</p>
<p>Didn’t want a complement to go unanswered or unthanked. :)</p>
<p>:
"Now that you point it out, however, I don’t care if the government is democratically elected. Makes no difference to me as long as the government is pro-American and keeps the oil pipeline flowing. See Saudi Arabia. "</p>
<p>And I would say you are right in the sense in that was and is America’s policy throughout the last half-century. Hold that in your mind for a second and read this. In 1998 Bin Laden and his cooperatives issued a fatwa (kind of like a Papal Bull , no pun intended) and said this is why he and his followers dislike America. </p>
<p>1.Plunders the resources of the Arabian Peninsula.
2.Dictates policy to the rulers of those countries.
3.Supports abusive regimes and monarchies in the Middle East, thereby oppressing their people.
4.Has military bases and installations upon the Arabian Peninsula, which violates the Muslim holy land, in order to threaten neighboring Muslim countries. </p>
<p>Now although I vehemently disagree with attacking civilians to prove a point, I don’t think you disagree with the concept because you just said that that was American policy and I.E. Saudi Arabia , you support it. So before when you were ranting and raving about the United 93 movie and how they were evil and they hate us for our freedom you’re the naive one. It just shows that war between soldiers here and the terrorists there is just a battle between two equal evils.</p>
<p>Zaphod</p>
<p>We appreciate you too!!! :)</p>
<p>Lange Leads The Rock to 2-1 Record in Pool Play </p>
<p>Lange faces a pair of SEC coaches – Mike Gottfried and Tubby Smith – as pool play winds down. </p>
<p>May 27, 2006 NavySports.com</p>
<p>Camp Arifjan, Kuwait - In his fifth day in Kuwait as part of Operation Hardwood II, Navy basketball coach Billy Lange led his team, The Rock, to a 1-1 record and 2-1 overall mark in pool play. In addition, he details the coaches’ trip to Zone 6 and in particular a conversations with the Troops. </p>
<p>Day 5:
First good night’s sleep and I am up and ready to go. We have two games today that will close out pool play. The first game is scheduled for 8:00 am and we are playing The Arifjan Heat led by Tubby Smith of Kentucky. The Heat has emerged as a strong contender for the championship. No doubt why as Coach Smith is one of the college game’s premier coaches. </p>
<p>We give up a 3-point shot off the jump ball and soon find ourselves behind 7-0. We have pride in The Rock, though, and battle back to get the deficit to one at 11-10 behind some great pressure defense off the bench led by “Benny” from Georgia and “Tower” from Kansas City. We are incredibly undersized in this game and the consensus amongst the coaches is that the Heat has the tourney’s best overall player. We scrap and claw and although we go without a 3-pointer in the first half, we are within five at intermission. One of the traits of our team has been our offensive rebounding. We are aggressive on the boards like former Navy player George O’Garro used to be in his senior year. </p>
<p>Eventually talent and size overcome our quickness, particularly on a bad shooting day and we lose by a final score of 58-44. I was proud of our crew, though. We got down by 19 and crept to within eight at the 2:00 minute mark, but it just was not enough. To make matters worse, our starting guard and leading scorer, “Mac,” twists his ankle and is likely out for the second game. </p>
<p>After the game, a van is taking a few of us over to ZONE 6 of Camp Arifjan. I venture over with Jim Crews, Tom Izzo, and Mark Gottfried. ZONE 6 looks like the grounds of the old hit TV show MASH*, except in the desert. There are tents there, not barracks. We are led into the tents and soon see bunk beds amongst bunk beds in multiple rows. There is a painted sign on one of the doors… FEAR BREEDS FEAR. The mindset of a soldier in the Middle East is just amazing. I can’t wait to talk to our players about one of my favorite words…FOCUS. These troops epitomize that. </p>
<p>There are not just tents, however. The desert of ZONE 6 is also filled with what looks like the giant containers you might see on a ship labeled with a company such as MAERSK. No labels here. These “containers” house several soldiers. Bottom line: ZONE 6 is no joke. These soldiers are ready to “head north” in a second’s notice. “Head North” is the camp’s call for going to Iraq. See, this is real here…no CNN or Washington Post. Real life stuff. The coaches enter one and we meet several troops. It’s really cool because this “house” has several natives of Alabama and they go nuts over seeing Coach Gottfried. You should see the Kentucky Troops when they come across Tubby Smith! </p>
<p>Amazing thing about these Troops is that they are just kids…20-26 years old. I am moved. They count the days until they can go home, but yet could not be more confident about their existence in the Middle East. They have pictures of all the current pin-ups all over the metal cabinets that double as closets and dividers. I ask one why he joined the Army. “Well, sir, my grandfather was in the Army, my uncles were in the Army and my father was in the Army.” I nod. “But sir that is not why I joined. I figured that if everyone kept looking at someone else to take responsibility, then there would be no one left to defend our people.” I will never forget Troop Chad Morris. </p>
<p>We then walk over to the Zone’s rec center where there are a few Troops just chillin’ out. We meet two members of the Alpha/31st Forward Support Battalion - SS Lloyd Carr and 1st LT Curtis Sampsom. These gentlemen are impressive figures. They had just led a convoy to Iraq, they tell us. They finish that statement with, “where we lost two of our men. They were picked off.” Suddenly the thought of being down three points with 25 seconds left doesn’t seem so nerve racking. All of us coaches join in with an impromptu hug and tell the troops just how proud we are. There are cracks in our voices, but these men are rock solid. This is life over here.</p>
<p>All of the coaches meet up at the Zone’s DFAC (dining facility) and eat lunch with the Troops and sign autographs. Everyone is so appreciative and we go out of our way to make sure they know how much we appreciate them. You spend one hour here and I guarantee you will feel the same way. You can’t even imagine the heat, and it is supposedly cool here. Temperatures reach 120 degrees and in a few weeks it will be in upwards of 140. Martin Newton from NIKE says it best, “sometimes, when there is a breeze, you feel like someone has a blow dryer in front of your face.” There is water everywhere, and I mean everywhere. Bottled water in coolers, tubs and refrigerators. It is drunk so fast that they can’t even cool it. We asked the Major General how much they spend on water. He gave us an outlandish number. One of the coaches said, “for the year?!” and the General replied, “No… for a week.” They deserve every penny’s worth. </p>
<p>Our second game is against The Renegades coached by Alabama’s Mark Gottfried…two SEC matchups in one day!!! We don’t have “Mac” so we have to rally. We do! “Heinzy” drills threes in his best Greg Sprink impersonation. We throw an aggressive 2-3 zone at them and my man “G” from South Carolina gets a ton of deflections. Texas’ “Hawk” is all over the floor and we build an 11-point lead. Then a guard for the other team catches fire. Three-straight 3’s followed by a “T” on “G”(questionable call!!) has us facing a two-point deficit. No worries. Enter the energizer bunny, “Tea-C” and throw a box-and-1 on their hot guard and suddenly The Rock is rolling. We win going away. We finish 2-1 in pool play and play well together in all games. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s playoffs. </p>
<p>The night caps off with all the coaches hanging out at the camp’s pool. We talk ball, recap the games and tell stories. It is actually a cool, calm night. Sitting there I can’t believe that “heading north” is only 40 miles away. I can’t believe all of us coaches are in Kuwait. I can’t believe that today we met Sgt. Major Preston, the Sgt. Major of the United States Army. There are a lot of things I can’t believe. One thing I do believe in are the men and women of Camp Arifjan and Zone 6. They show us no fear. They give us confidence. </p>
<p>Thank God for PFC Morris. Thank God for his definition of “responsibility”. </p>
<p>Peace from Kuwait and GO NAVY!
Billy </p>
<p>Navy men’s basketball coach Billy Lange is one-of-12 college basketball coaches and sports personalities touring the Persian Gulf region this week as part of the USO’s Operation Hardwood II. Lange joins Mark Gottfried (Alabama), Jim Crews (Army), Bobby Lutz (Charlotte), Kelvin Sampson (Indiana), Tubby Smith (Kentucky), Gary Williams (Maryland), Tom Izzo (Michigan State), Dave Odom (South Carolina), Rick Barnes (Texas), ESPN analyst Jay Bilas and former Air Force head coach Reggie Minton where they are coaching teams made up of the premier military players and competing in a championship tournament. Upon completion of Operation Hardwood II, Lange, Bilas, Gottfried and Odom will extend their trip by flying onto an operational carrier where they will hold a 3-on-3-basketball tournament for the sailors aboard the carrier. </p>
<p>G-o N-a-v-y</p>
<p>From the Baltimore Sun </p>
<p>980 midshipmen graduate in Annapolis </p>
<p>Commencement held for first class to start after 9/11 attacks; men and women note many changes during their four years </p>
<p>By Bradley Olson
sun reporter </p>
<p>May 28, 2006 </p>
<p>The first crop of midshipmen to attend the Naval Academy in the wave of patriotism after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks graduated Friday, throwing their hats in the air and swearing an oath to the United States. </p>
<p>Although the 161-year-old institution is well-known for its traditions and its propensity to stick to them, recent graduates said they went through many changes in four years as Mids, notably a far-reaching response to a rape scandal at the Air Force Academy and sweeping changes to prepare them for the war on terror. </p>
<p>“The academy is almost constantly looking into itself and is willing to change and adjust,” said Matt Bowman, 22, of Randallstown. “Sometimes, what frustrates Mids are the politics that go into those changes. … All the government does is brought to bear here, and it involves all that we do.” </p>
<p>Of the 1,214 who came to Annapolis as plebes in 2002, 980 graduated: 833 men and 147 women. </p>
<p>Vice President Dick Cheney delivered the commencement address. </p>
<p>On Friday, 762 became Navy ensigns and 203 were commissioned as second lieutenants in the Marine Corps. Four Mids transferred into the Army and Air Force. </p>
<p>Twenty-two percent were minorities, including 81 Hispanic graduates, 58 African-Americans, 56 Asian-Americans and 25 Native Americans. </p>
<p>They will join a cadre of almost 72,000 alumni who have graduated from the academy since 1845, including about 2,500 women beginning in 1980. </p>
<p>Jay Michael Dixon, a midshipman who fell to his death from the academy dormitory in 2005, was listed as an honorary graduate Friday. </p>
<p>Notably absent was standout quarterback Lamar Owens and another senior football player, Kenny Ray Morrison, who face courts-martial in July on charges of sexual misconduct in separate incidents. </p>
<p>Bowman said the Annapolis military college became overly sensitive after the Air Force Academy scandal in 2003, when dozens of women said they had been raped and the assaults ignored by that school’s leadership. </p>
<p>When he arrived, too many upperclass Mids were doing “spot corrections” - punishing plebes for shoes that weren’t shined enough - punishments that were “without reason.” </p>
<p>For example, he once forgot to greet an upperclassman when he was a plebe and the upperclassman made him hand-write the name 2003 times. </p>
<p>Having no time to do it, he got together with other plebes and they helped write the name together. While it helped them learn teamwork, it was also pointless, he said. </p>
<p>But after the scandal at the Air Force Academy, in Colorado Springs, Colo., the academy’s response was “too heavy-handed,” he said. Lately, the pendulum has swung back. </p>
<p>“We tried to spare too many feelings when it comes to training,” said Bowman, who entered the Marine Corps. “It’s starting to be the tough academy that I applied to and had intended to come to,” he said. </p>
<p>Zach Goldstein, 23, agreed. </p>
<p>“We all felt the aftershocks of what went on at Air Force,” said Goldstein, a graduate of Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda. “And everyone has to be very conscientious of all our [sexual assault] policies now.” </p>
<p>Sheivon Davis, a Baltimore native and graduate of Polytechnic Institute, said she never had any problem as a woman during her years at the academy. Life has been better since 2003, she said, mostly during the tenure of Vice Adm. Rodney P. Rempt. </p>
<p>She said she appreciated that liberty - or leave privileges - for midshipmen had been tied to performance, and that Rempt and “the administration,” as Mids say, had set performance goals for the entire brigade of midshipmen, which they achieved. </p>
<p>“Morale increased,” she said. “And he’s beautified the place a lot,” adding flowers and sprucing up certain buildings. </p>
<p>Many said they will miss their friends and the relationships they built over four years, but not the academy itself. They were on the fence about how long they would stay in the military. </p>
<p>Davis said she is sure to do “five and dive,” a reference to the years midshipmen are obligated to serve after they finish. </p>
<p>Goldstein, however, said he has at least 10 years to go because he will be an aviator. </p>
<p>“If I’m having a good time, I’ll stay in,” he said. “I’m excited to join the fleet.”</p>
<p>2,500 female USNA grads in the history of the institution just takes my breath away! Congratulations ladies at all service academies!</p>
<p>A mid in the Baltimore Sun article mentioned the positive changes Admiral Rodney Rempt has instituted at USNA. I also have tremendous respect for Superintendent Rempt! He’s a great administrator and the institution has benefited from his leadership!</p>
<p>In case y’all haven’t seen this article about how media can (and does)manipulate the details in a photo in order to present a certain impression that they want you to have. Interesting…</p>
<p>Here’s a link:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_september_24_2005/anatomy_of_a_photograph/[/url]”>http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_september_24_2005/anatomy_of_a_photograph/</a></p>
<p>Isn’t Photoshop just an AWESOME program?</p>
<p>bz2010… saw that site a few months ago, quite interesting! thanks for posting</p>
<p>Also BZ …</p>
<p>I would be remiss if I did not tell you how much I loved and appreciated what you wrote in reply to the dynamic duo ("… if you recognize the existence of LOVE, then you recognize the existence of GOD, because God IS love!")…awesome :)</p>
<p>Sorry for the thread hyjack …back to media stuff</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The HELL you say! I thought they were completely impartial and only interested in the truth! :rolleyes:</p>
<p><a href=“http://home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TheGoodTheBadTheMedia-X.gif[/url]”>http://home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TheGoodTheBadTheMedia-X.gif</a></p>
![http://home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TheGoodTheBadTheMedia-X.gif[/url]](http://home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TheGoodTheBadTheMedia-X.gif%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
<p>OMG Z…soooooooooo TRUE**!** and ultimately tragic</p>
<p><a href=“ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs”>ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs;
<p>:D</p>
<p>Hey PM - Glad you liked the post, etc. It’s funny about that “God is Love” response - that wasn’t something I’d seen before (or even intended to say). Hope it didn’t land on deaf ears - or blind eyes as the case may be!. </p>
<p>C23: “What’s that knocking sound?? Is someone at the door??”</p>
<p>Z - Love the images you post! I don’t know where you find them, but they are a hoot! Keep ‘em comin’! </p>
<p>Have y’all ever watched the videos from Brain Terminal? The site is run (and films made) by a young guy who’s been called “The Conservative Michael Moore”. Only he’s better looking & doesn’t make fiction!</p>
<p>I’ve mentioned this before in ref to another topic, but in case you missed it, here’s a link:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.brain-terminal.com/[/url]”>http://www.brain-terminal.com/</a></p>