Medical & Legal Advice for Elderly Parent

Parent Cafe
21

@jonri -

My H is a trust and estates/elder lawyer and I am also an attorney, but not in that field, although I have worked on many cases with him. He has videotaped will execution ceremonies on several occasions, although I will agree that it’s not always necessary or warranted. The purpose is to demonstrate that the person is not under duress and has testamentary capacity, which is a lower standard than regular competency. Although the tape isn’t admissible to show competency, it can demonstrate, for instance, that the person is neat and clean, can speak clearly and understands both the natural objects of their bounty and the nature and extent of their estate. In one tape that my husband made, the client pointed out a typo in the will and it was changed The client also discussed why he did his bequests the way he did. When the attorney for the relative who had been cut out of the will saw the tape, he convinced his client to drop the challenge because it was clear that the testator was acting of his own volition and knew what he was doing. The challenge was going to be based on undue influence allegedly exerted by another relative and it wouldn’t have stood up.

I don’t think you can blanket say never videotape or always videotape. Like any other estate plan tool, a determination as to the propriety and need of a particular device has to be made on a case by case basis.

About your point #2 - that is an excellent observation. Hopefully, the OP has her plan in place as well. Since she has siblings, perhaps one of them should be designated as a successor POA for the mom.

The joint account is the easiest means for using the money on a day to day basis to cover bills. If there’s a concern that the OP would inherit too much money on her own if she gets any remaining proceeds for herself, the family could agree to fund the joint account with only as much money as is needed for day to day expenses.

I think that the initial question raised in this post is an important one. It’s useful on the other end as well. I had to get my young adult children to agree to let me access their school records and their health insurance records as well. H and I have discussed getting POA’s from them and I think we will pursue it. Once they marry, their spouses can assume that function.

22

Have to run out but wanted to say that my mother’s five year old will already names my brother as successor POA and also names him on health care proxy, but uses different language (something about if I should be unable to complete the duties…)

I fully intend to reach out to an attorney Monday morning but as this just landed on me last night, I am seeking layperson advice so that perhaps I can better understand what the attorney may tell me AND also know what questions to ask/topics to consider.

My siblings are fully aware and involved. I had my brother sit with my mother today to pull information that I need (he lives closer). I want everything to be handled on the up and up, want to make things easier for my mother as she is suffering, and avoid any logistical problems along the way.

Not sure I understand this.

“About your point #2 - that is an excellent observation. Hopefully, the OP has her plan in place as well.”

If you are asking if I have a will, then yes, a recently written one, with trustee and executor named.

Thank you everyone for all the helpful advice.

23

@techmom It’s not my area either. And maybe the advice in NY state is not the same as in other states. However, I am just telling the truth when I say that in a CLE (Continuing Legal Education) course, a T & E lawyer said NEVER videotape the execution of a will. Maybe it does vary by state…in which case seeing an attorney is still good advice…

As to joint accounts, it’s not just–or even principally–what the person will inherit. It’s possible to find yourself in a position in which you have to justify each check you ever wrote on the account…and that can be hard to do. If the siblings all trust each other, it’s fine. If not…be prepared to justify each and every check you signed. If any of them even indirectly benefited the signer, be prepared for ugly backlash. The D may know she never signed a single check that wasn’t for mom and only mom. However, a sibling who is unaware of the authority the sibling had and finds out about it after mom’s death may see this as undue influence over mom.

If everyone knows that sis can co-sign checks so mom’s bills are paid and agree to it, fine. But in some families, other siblings may ask that they get to see, e.g., the checking account statements each month, so they know where the $ is going.

24

This doesn’t sound quite right. If you are just a signer, not a co-owner of the account, you have to stop signing upon her death. If you make it a joint account, the money may become yours upon her death, and you could use it for estate expenses or a trip to Paris, it’s yours. Make sure you structure this the way you intend to if you go forward with it.

Also, you have gotten a lot of legal advice here which makes me cringe, but then I have engineering degrees and don’t even practice law after staying in a Holiday Inn Express.

However, you’ve got a lot of non-legal work ahead. Modifying her house and getting her transportation and home care set up are going to be huge, time-sucking endeavors for you and all of your siblings, and it will only get worse. Is there someone in the family who can dedicate nearly full time to this? If not, I understand you can hire senior care managers to do much (though not all) of the administrative work. You might consider this if her finances can support it.

25

Joni, I understand what u r saying. That is why I made it a point to allow sibling full access into every purchase. Even if I bought a $1.19 bottle of milk, I paid for it separately. Every receipt was available for review.

What every local caregiver knows, there is never $ reciprocity. I never asked for gas $ or food $, or the hours I lost from work. I made no decisions without full disclosure.

26

@jonri -

NY is odd in many ways, but it seems to be OP’s mom’s state as well as mine.

I threw out everything I did partly so that OP would see how daunting it is to do these things on her own and I agree that personalized legal advice is necessary.

As for joint accounts, although I was left everything in the will (my only sibling was specifically disinherited), I still made sure to use my aunt’s JA only for her expenses - rent, food, aides and the like. I also used her credit card only to buy things for her. I canceled her CC four days after she died because the CC company wouldn’t do it without a death certificate. I didn’t use it after her death. I paid for the funeral from my account and reimbursed myself. My aunt owned a condo, so I had to probate to sell it. I submitted the funeral expense to the estate. Since I had divested her before her death, I was able to do a small estate proceeding myself. My aunt’s will, however, was not drafted by my H, although that is what he does for a living.

@MomofJandL - It is great to have someone with a practical knowledge on this thread. The suggestions you gave are great. OP didn’t indicate how safety proofed her mom’s home is or isn’t and what work might be needed.

27

My mother is 93 and perfectly capable of living alone and managing her own affairs, with some assistance. Nevertheless…I am on all of her bank accounts as a secondary owner. I am on her investment account as a person who receives all info. I am on her Social Security account as a person who can be privy to any information. IIRC, the same is true of her insurance accounts and a bunch of other stuff, such as her utilities. My H files her taxes for her and I makes all of her scheduled state and federal tax payments. (She writes checks herself for her local property and car taxes.)

A lot of this is because she is hard of hearing and finds it convenient for me to talk to people on the phone for her.

28

Both my MIL and my brother’s MIL became prey to people overseas who take advantage of demented older people. They gave away tens of thousands of dollars away to crooks on fake sweepstakes, stories about sick nephews. In my brother’s MIL case they did things like deliver pizza to the house to get new contact info. We had to change phone numbers, get P O Boxes and screen all the mail. In both cases most of the inheritance was squandered. My SIL is still dealing with Medicare who want records of where all the money went.

I agree with others talk to a lawyer, but also there are people out there who specialize in eldercare and know what services are available. Make use of them! Being the primary caregiver is a huge burden. Nearly everyone I know who has done it has ended up with cancer from the stress.

29

Sorry I dropped off since yesterday.

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I will be reaching out to the lawyer we met with when she rewrote her will after my father died. If his firm is not experienced in elder care, I will find someone who is.

I don’t think there will be any trust issues among the siblings. We all have our own houses and families and everyone is comfortable.

I am in the best position to handle the logistics of the legal, medical, transportation, etc as I am not working, and the other siblings are. I handled these things when my father was failing, but I didn’t have to get involved with the financial (bill paying) and estate planning side of things then as my mother was in better shape. I helped her settle things after he died. (SS, Pension, Life Insurance, sending death certs to whoever else needed them, etc)

What I was really trying to find out was what are the subjects I should be thinking about now while she is still able to participate, as in, accompany me to the bank to have me added to her account. (@MomofJandL–I will ask lawyer about being added to account versus being co-owner of account.)

I have a couple of follow-up questions/comments:

@Consolation – why would I need to be on her SS account? Is that in case something happens to make the payments stop? I don’t even know how often SS and pension payments arrive, or how (direct deposit?), so I do need to sit with her to get a handle on the inflows and outflows.

@mathmom – I pay her taxes, and other than a LOT of small checks to random religious charities, everything seems legit and not out of line with her income. She authorized me to place a freeze on her credit, and wants me to set up her banking so that I will have online access. While she is still handling everything on her own, it is becoming too much for her and she is finally willing to accept help, so I am happy to offer it.

Again, thank you all for the helpful comments and advice. My To Do list for tomorrow is very long!

30

All SS payments are now direct deposit unless you get special permission not to. It reduces the amount of theft and robberies. You can see how her pension arrives by looking at the bank statements. If it isn’t direct deposit, you should change that to make it easier for her.

31

SS allows a person to designate someone who has their permission to talk about their account, which, IIRC includes the Medicare account. A lot of people are collecting SS who need help dealing with their affairs for one reason or another at some point. This makes it easier, should the need arise. I haven’t had to use it recently, but it was helpful when figuring stuff out after my father died, and when there were some questions about Medicare. IIRC, her medigap policy has the same thing. Very handy at times.

32

I agree with the Lawyer. Almost ten years ago I was in the position and responsible for an elderly family member that was slowly declining and probably at a similar place as the OP’s family member. The lawyer reviewed everything, took care of the house title, the bank accounts, and many other pieces of the puzzle with both of us while she was still pretty mentally competent but starting to get overwhelmed. I put all her utilities, garbage collection, etc. on automatic withdrawals so that decreased the mail she found confusing. I did not freezer her credit because while the intention was to have her “age in place” with in-home care assistance she had a series of strokes and ultimately needed to be moved to a nursing home facility. It is “convenient” to have her nursing home bills paid with HER credit card and the 50% reimbursements from her nursing home insurance are paid directly to bank account and transferred to her bank credit card automatically so I only need to pay off the balance each month on her credit card using her on-line banking.

I also worked with her to consolidate all her finances with one certified financial planner which has helped immensely in the long run juggling a now vacated home and the ins and outs of nursing homes and healthcare while trying to preserve her estate as best as possible.

What looks short-term with the elderly can sometimes turn into long term. This particular senior had 5 strokes four years after i stepped in to help with simple things, survived and is now 6 years past the strokes and almost a decade since the mental decline that prompted the original necessity of me putting the legal and financial pieces in place. She is pretty helpless now with advanced dementia and physical issues, but this ten years is longer than I ever anticipated and there could still be several more years ago even though she’s 90 now. Plan for the long term…activate the help pieces as needed but have all the financial and legal pieces in place prior to full on mental decline.