@cobrat, you are explaining the reason, or at least one of the reasons, for the cultural issues involved with certain athletes who are also serious about their academics. No one is disputing that. The point under discussion is whether such issues exist. And yeah, I obviously agree (as I stated before) that sometimes the biggest cultural obstacle is one’s own teammates. As far as the violence and the bullying, I have seen all the movies and tv shows. But honestly I never saw any of that first hand in high school or college (although there were some frat parties that got out of hand and ended poorly in college). Frankly, most athletes of my aquaintence in high school would have thought it beneath them to pick on the “geeks”. It would have been kind of looked down upon, maybe not because it was bad per se, but in a kind of “dude, what’s the point?” way to be honest. So that part of it always seemed weird. Not saying it doesn’t happen, it just is contrary to my experience.
@Ohiodad51 It’s not just movies. As cliche as it is, that’s exactly why my husband switched from public to private school back in the day. Which ended up being the best thing that could have possibly happened to him, but that’s another story.
This factor along with the high crime rate at my neighborhood public HS in which an older neighborhood kid was knifed in the first few weeks of 9th grade so badly that he need several stitches was the reason why I applied and attended my STEM-centered public magnet.
Partially because a critical mass of students attending were bullied for being high academic achieving “nerds” in K-8, the school culture/social pecking order there was an inversion of that at many mainstream US high schools.
Athletes were actually one of those at the very bottom of the social pecking order when I attended. I felt very bad for them as it was unfair in their case…especially considering they had to take the same exam and pass it with the same cutoff score as the rest of us.
I never said it was. I just said it was contrary to my experience as an athlete. I assumed that was pretty clear from the words used.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-earnings/archive/highlights-of-womens-earnings-in-2014.pdf
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2016/womens-earnings-83-percent-of-mens-but-vary-by-occupation.htm
Bureau of Labor statistics on men vs. women’s earnings above. Obviously there are many nuances, but I don’t know that the wage disparity has been debunked. I would love to see a study that demonstrates wage equity in the US.
On a different note, it may be that men feel more secure in their future earnings and see no need to go to college. Women, on the other hand, understand that they will have a harder time achieving a middle class wage and so commit to school In ways men don’t.
I too am the parent of a boy and a girl. And as it happens, the parent of a boy who dropped out of college his frosh year and a girl who is doing well in college.
S is doing well now, in a no-college-needed career with time enough to pursue music, which is what he really enjoys most.
But my family fits the narrative of this article well, actually.
The BLS statistics just reference the ratio of women’s average pay to men’s average pay. They do not take into account the number of hours worked, occupations, skill levels or education.
There have been studies that looked at the impact of those factors. Below is an article that summarizes one such study. Difference when you remove all of the factors such as hours worked, occupations, skill levels and education is about 92%. And we are not sure what the remaining difference is due to.
Wage gap (real and nominal) have been declining for the past couple decades. And with more women in college than men, expect them to continue to decrease.
As already noted, if the difference was anywhere near what is stated in the BLS stats, why wouldn’t companies hire only women at lower pay levels and increase their profits?
I was listening to something on NPR maybe about this…about women starting the same job, with the same credentials, out of college, at lower pay.
This wasn’t it, but it’s similar: https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2016/04/12/men-offered-higher-pay-than-women-for-same-job-69-of-time-study-shows/#517234e156bb
Companies do hire women at lower pay and increase their profits, but they also hire men.
That same article found:
Why not hire more (or even all) women and increase your profits even more?
They need to hire men to supervise the low paid women. :))
One reason I do not believe that these issues are responsible for the lower enrollment rates of men is that for the most part these are issues particular to residential students on residential campuses. The vast majority of college students in this country are not enrolled in a residential program. I just read that 75% of college students today are commuters living at home with most of them holding some sort of part time job as well. I am sure many are also holding full time jobs and attending classes at night or enrolled in college on a part time basis as their jobs permit.
The issue you raise above are more likely to affect a small percentage of men enrolled in college.
Not only do the majority of college students commute. making the campus environment less important, but the vast percentage of young people have a different world view than their parents. They have grown up in a more diverse America. True there are some idiots, such as the students rescinded by Harvard. Still many young men are significantly more attuned to diversity, privilege, and by-stander practices than their parents who are worried about rape policies, diversity, and the changing demographics of America. I write this as a professor who is regularly surprised by the socio-economic sophistication of my students. Sometimes when I start to worry about their reading and writing(dare I say “critical thinking”) abilities, they surprise me with an offhand discussion, demonstrating real insight into the complexity of life.
But what to do with the young men who don’t go to college? I tried a couple of pages ago to move from our inept efforts at problem definition (blame the girls) to a discussion of what might help young men. I had wondered about the possibility of new models of masculinity, but had no takers.
What do you think will help young men, alienated from the system,to engage in hard academic work?
So everyone should go to college?
This is very ironic considering the model of masculinity I grew up with in a neighborhood brimming with machismo was that complaining about others being hostile to you because they disagreed with your opinions…even heatedly is the exact opposite to the expected reaction.
To embrace the hostility and disagreement by the majority as a challenge to be savored, not something to be avoided…especially by those to whom some/much advantage has been bestowed.
You mean, “regurgitating what I want to hear”. Every student does this to get good grades from their professors.
Women saying “No Thanks” to men who say “No Thanks” to college 
Oh horrors…someone said something that hurt your feelings or made you feel unfairly stereotyped, judged, etc…
Welcome to the real world guys! How did the rest of us EVER survive the same treatment and worse without threatening to throw in the towel?
Drama queens.
Having the streets filled with these “drama queens” will not end well…