<p>Pardon moi, musicamusica. I should have said, “publicly demonstrated and publicly reported”. You make a very valid point about how the media has changed and are now far more likely to report the “ick” of a celebrity’s behavior than before. Infotainment is a good term for it. </p>
<p>I’m on the side of compassion for Sheen. One thing that just struck me however- when he was recently hospitalized with the “stomach pain”, and clearly drunker than a skunk- wouldn’t a doc have been likely to call for a psych consult? I know that even if he had been found to pose a danger to himself or others, he could only be committed involuntarily for 30 days (in most places), but I wonder if anyone is following up on the medical treatment he received when hospitalized. It seems that an opportunity was missed there.</p>
<p>I have worked with bipolar patients and I know people personally and socially who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and its seems to be an overstatement to suggest that all patients will manifest the kind of frightening behaviors during a manic episode. Sure, many behaviors can be seen as offensive to others, and certainly lots of things can be seen as threatening or dangerous, but even when patients are experiencing grandiosity or euphoria, they are not all necesasrily arrogant, threatening or noxious. Personally, I think that there may be a co-existing personality disorder that tempers how the symptoms are manifest in different individuals.</p>
<p>Well lets admit that good people and bad people both can develop bipolar disorder. My experience has been limited to my family(living with it every day) and people I’ve met thru support groups. </p>
<p>Cartera said “no excuses”. This is something everyone who lives with a bipolar patient struggles with. At what point does one ignore the awful behavior? How accountable is your loved one when they are suffering from a manic episode? What horrible things that they have said to you do you forget? How delusional are they? There are no easy answers. Every case is different. But in Mr. S’s case, for some reason, I’m siding with compassion. (Mostly because I detest the media and the way they are playing M.S’s delustions.)</p>
<p>Totally agree, musicamusica. Even taking the Bipolar piece out of it, for a moment, there are people who are enjoyable, and people who are jerks.</p>
<p>musica, I would side with Sheen had the media just shown up and filmed the kids. That did not happen. He invited them to “document” how cooperative he was. That’s fine too - but he could have done that privately. Giving permission for the video of the kids to be shown in the media is the part I can’t excuse.</p>
<p>That is a great question and gets to the crux of the matter of whether all of the media attention is taking advantage of Charlie Sheen.</p>
<p>I have a mentally ill sister-in-law, not bipolar but a different condition, and I really struggle with the idea of how accountable to hold her. Her mental illness seems to be used an excuse for her behavior but she is incredibly manipulative so she ends up taking advantage of everyone. It’s hard to know where the line of accountability is.</p>
<p>Not to be argumentative, and I’m watching the coverage as much as anyone, but is he mentally capable of giving consent? I don’t even know what I think the answer to that is.</p>
<p>Actually, Cartera, given my personal history with actors, I can’t really say that I side with him as a “celebrity”. After all he is one of their “clan”. But I tend to side withhim as somone who is suffering with a disease . Doesn’t the media outlet, who show up with the cameras, have any responsibility whatsoever?</p>
<p>I agree about the ones who show up but he is inviting them and arranging exclusive coverage. I don’t think they can get into his neighborhood without it being arranged. The kids need a guardian ad litem to protect them from the exposure he is arranging for them.</p>
<p>It took you “years” to muster up compassion after having direct experience with a bipolar relative, yet you are incensed that the public, most of whom have neither experience with this disease nor any education about it whatsoever, don’t display instant compassion? Sans education about a disease process like this, it is normal human nature to be disgusted or angered by such behavior.</p>
<p>Perhaps, with his high profile, some good will come of all this with increased awareness of what bipolar illness is, how debilitating it can be, as well as early symptoms and treatment options. We can only hope that he will get and accept treatment, and once balanced again, take advantage of his celebrity to get the word out there about his illness and the insight he has gained by getting treatment and then seeing film of himself in a manic crisis.</p>
<p>It’s also worth remembering that there are several different etiologies of “manic” type behavior, so we do not know for a FACT that Charlie Sheen has bipolar disease. It seems obvious that something is seriously wrong with him, but none of us can diagnose him from afar.</p>
<p>Chuck Lorre’s vanity card at the end of one of his shows tonight as reported by Entertainment Weekly online today: </p>
<p>I believe that consciousness creates the illusion of individuation, the false feeling of being separate. In other words, I am aware, ergo I am alone. I further believe that this existential misunderstanding is the prime motivating force for the neurotic compulsion to blot out consciousness. This explains the paradox of our culture, which celebrates the ego while simultaneously promoting its evisceration with drugs and alcohol. It also clarifies our deep-seated fear of monolithic, one-minded systems like communism, religious fundamentalism, zombies and invaders from Mars. Each one is a dark echo of an oceanic state of unifying transcendence from which consciousness must, by nature, flee. The Fall from Grace is, in fact, a Sprint from Grace. Or perhaps more accurately, “Screw Grace, I am so outta here!”</p>
<p>My sister has bipolar disorder, so this is an interesting discussion for me. Some of you may have read my posts about her before. She did many, many god awful terrible things to this family, and even today we have to keep her at arms length to protect ourselves, physically, legally, and emotionally. I hold her accountable for all of her behavior. That doesn’t mean that I don’t feel compassion for her because I know her illness makes her the way that she is, but that illness is a part of her and she is never going to be able to do what she needs to do to take the bull by the horns and get herself on meds and in therapy if we tell her her behavior is okay when it isn’t. When she is trying and fails, we are willing to help her pick up the pieces. But she is a grown woman and when she is not willing to try and not willing to ask for help, there is nothing that we can do for her and making excuses for her behavior doesn’t help her in any way. So she is always accountable. We might forgive her, but we do not pretend she is not responsible for her own destiny-- even if it’s hard for her to step up to the plate, she is responsible, life does not let us off the hook just because it is hard. Because it is hard is why we forgive-- we do not forget, and we do not make excuses. That is where the compassion is. We are able to forgive her while still holding her accountable to standards that we know she can reach when she is willing to try. That doesn’t mean that when she does something terrible that we aren’t completely outraged and disgusted with her, but we are willing to forgive and expect her to keep working on it.</p>
<p>nrds–Did you really read the quote that you posted? I stated clearly that I do not expect the general public to understand this condition. And I stated that it has taken me years to come to some sort of terms with this. I certainly do not expect “instant compassion”. I’ve all but given up in explaining this condition, even to people I know well.I do ,that more often than not, folks are resentful if you point out that they may be deriding someone who is more than likely mentally ill.
I do have disdain for things like Vanity Fairs “mad libs” parody. That little squib got my Irish up and that is why I made the mistake of posting. My real ire is with the MEDIA. They are playing Mr Sheen and the public.</p>
<p>Emaneevul—I agree, even the mentally ill are responsible for their destiny.
Therein lies the problem.</p>
<p>I believe they are “accountable” to take their meds. All too often, they get balanced, they get steady, and either feel “flat” and don’t like that, or think they are “cured” and no longer need their meds. </p>
<p>There has to be some standard of accountability They can’t be faulted for having the disorder, but the responsibility to stay on treatment once diagnosed is theirs. Acts committed as a result of refusing to take or stay on their meds are theirs to own, imo.</p>
<p>^I think where people get stuck there is that the mental illness itself makes it difficult to stay the course. When people are manic they think they’re awesome a la Charlie Sheen and don’t need meds. If they could be good judges of their state of being they wouldn’t be in a manic phase. While they’re still accountable for that choice, for those here who are not familiar with mania I think it is important to note that particular facet of the disease. </p>
<p>I for one think there is just a difference between holding someone accountable and holding someone at fault. If Sheen is indeed mentally ill, it’s not his fault he’s sick and screwing up, but he’s still accountable regardless of if its his fault. I think, if I am reading correctly, that’s how you feel tool, Nrdsb4. </p>
<p>And for me, if it’s not someone’s fault I am willing to forgive, but that doesn’t mean I can’t hold them accountable… for example, let’s say my sister wasn’t ill and she did the terrible things she did to my family just because she was a rotten person-- she would be BOTH at fault and accountable, and as a result I would not only hold her responsible but I wouldn’t forgive her, either. To me, the question of forgivability is the crux of the matter-- and forgiveness isn’t just saying it’s okay that someone did something wrong, to me it just means I am going to love them despite that wrong. Since none of us know Charlie Sheen I imagine it’s a lot harder to look past his behavior than it would be if it were your sister or daughter, the distinction between forgiveness and accountability is much less clear with a stranger. When your mentally healthy child makes a stupid mistake, you can look past it without letting them off the hook-- same basic principle. But when it’s a stranger maybe it’s not so easy to see the difference between compassion and complacency.</p>
<p>The problem with the attitude that they are responsible to get on their meds and stay on them is that the meds can be maddeningly inexact. A change in weight, growing older, change in diet and numerous other things can effect the way the meds work. The man I work with is also seriously affect by SAD (seasonal attitude disorder). Every winter his meds need adjustment to account for that. The problem is that some years December is sunny, bright and warm. Some years the gloom sets in about Halloween. Both he and the doctors are always playing catch up. As he ages he finds the meds are more predictable, but that the dosages he needs is less, so that causes a whole new set of problems for him. Even if he is taking his meds as he should, he finds it is a constant struggle to keep it even. Every day that his meds don’t work the way they should makes it harder for him to stay on his meds.</p>
<p>The actor that plays Sonny Corinthos is bipolar (as is Sonny the character, I think) and he is pretty open about it, some of you might find some of his interviews and writings interesting. His name is Maurice Benard and he is a spokesperson for treatment of the disorder for Mental Health America. We always find his interviews interesting in this house, as we have yet to meet anyone personally with bipolar who is actually IN treatment.</p>
<p>I think it’s complicated. For some people, the cure is worse than the illness or it doesn’t work well enough. Also, there is a different dynamic with psychiatric disorders. Just as we on this thread wonder where the essence of a person ends and the illness begins, the patient wonders the same thing. Who are they without the mania? What will be left if if it goes away? When you don’t know anything else, it can be terrifying to give up what you do know. The list of famous artists who suffered from bipolar disorder is fascinating. Would those artists/writers/poets be the same without their illness? Would you take medication if you believed you would lose the very thing that made you who you are? And I use the word “believed” deliberately because, when treating people with psychiatric disorders, what they believe matters a great deal. Also, the world of the delusional patient (and some people with bipolar disorder do suffer from delusions) often contains delusional thinking about medications. This is not uncommon in those who suffer from paranoia. There can be all sorts of delusional thinking about the medication, the pharmaceutical industry, etc.</p>
After all he is one of their “clan”. But I tend to side withhim as somone who is suffering with a disease . Doesn’t the media outlet, who show up with the cameras, have any responsibility whatsoever?</p>