My son didn’t particularly want to apply to Harvard. It was the only one I insisted on. Why? Because I was pretty sure from school statistics and the fact that he was a legacy that he had a better than average chance of getting in. In fact about half the kids with his stats had gotten in historically. (It may have been a fluke, but it sure looked promising!) Anyway I felt that Harvard was better than my son was giving it credit for, and that if he only got into his safeties and Harvard, he should take a good look at Harvard. He didn’t visit until accepted students weekend and was pleasantly surprised by what he found. He agonized about his decision until the last day. It would have been easier if he had hated it. :)</p>
<p>Does that mean that students who are financially or logistically unable to visit colleges are therefore not capable of accurately assessing one “total package” over the other?</p>
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<p>Well, obviously Lizzie did, in fact, think she wanted to go to Baylor too. </p>
<p>So Harvard et al isn’t for everybody. So freakin’ what? Let her move out of the way and let a student who is dying to go there go there. It’s a win-win for everybody.</p>
<p>Some students, despite gaining admission to a top school, then feel unprepared to attend due to some insecurity about their academic background or their ability to compete successfully within of pool of thousands of other students as smart or smarter than they are. They are not likely to name “fear” as a reason for turning down a school like Harvard. Or maybe it is the parent who worries, especially if the student is not wealthy and privileged, or is a URM from a poor urban environmment. That student might simply say he wanted to stay closer to home or joke about not wanting to turn into a snob.</p>
<p>I know nothing of the OP, but think Bay is completely justified in asking if she actually visited the schools she has judged to be less of a fit than Baylor. I happen to think judging the fit aspect is a principal goal of visits. The facts can be obtained from books.</p>
<p>It seems to me most mothers are hardwired to protect all young, not just their own. College students still count as young for most of us here. Bay, mother to mother, I ask you to please be more careful how you deal with young people on this board. Even if someone makes it about an individual case, you don’t have to go there just because you feel you have the right. We don’t have to exercise all our rights at the expense of feelings, especially where young people are concerned. Obviously your mileage varies, but please just consider my request. Thanks.</p>
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<p>It does seem to me pen vs sword gets played out over and over on these threads and it rarely seems to me pen has much impact - ymmv - on the other hand, there are lots of lurkers. QuantMech - Thanks for all your time and for being the underdog champion!</p>
<p>Lipstick and Barbies are legitimate feminist choices, imho, as is Baylor. Guns, too, but that really is too complicated and off -topic even for me. Although I will add that in my neighborhood of hunters, venison is the preferred BBQ :)</p>
<p>My son received a grant to help defray the cost of attending his accepted student weekend at an Ivy–something they probably all offer. Money shouldn’t stop one from visiting, and those with schedule conflicts for the accepted student weekend arranged to go another time.</p>
<p>alh, I do agree with you, but don’t think this is a touchy or personal enough topic that such restraint is required–especially since the young lady agreed to having her story publicized. We’re talking about a college choice. It’s not like Bay is probing uninvited into some defenseless girl’s deep, traumatic wound. No doubt half her classmates asked her why she turned down those schools, and probably quite a few of them expressed some disbelief or disapproval. If she was smart enough to be admitted to those schools, don’t we have to assume she’s smart enough to know people read articles, discuss them, and sometimes question the content through letters to the editor, blogs, etc.? Furthermore, she chose to come on our thread in the parent forum and post some rather vague comments, like she’s lucky to be at Baylor. Further questions were inevitable.</p>
<p>I agree that being able to visit a campus is important and being able to visit several campuses is ideal. But for many people, it is not possible to visit every school to which a student applies. My son chose his top 2 as well as one of his safeties. After the visit to his #2 school, he knew his #1 choice was the right one.</p>
Of course it’s a matter of opinion–anything like this is a matter of opinion. Whether slavery is morally justified is a matter of opinion–but those who hold the opinion that it is justified will be, in today’s society, so far outside the mainstream that they will be pilloried just about anywhere. The question of gay rights is one where the mainstream of opinion will be different at different colleges–at Liberty University, it might be uncomfortable to be in favor of gay rights–at Yale, it will be uncomfortable to be against them. As for denigrating, if you go to Yale, you will have numerous openly gay classmates. If you oppose gay rights, they (and their friends) will take it personally.</p>
<p>Oh good lord. The only reasons one could turn down everyone’s precious Harvard are Fear and Insecurity. It’s just not possible that one … could simply not like Harvard, because different people like different things! It’s like you all assume – Harvard HAS to be the choice til proven otherwise.</p>
<p>^ I didn’t say that was the only reason–merely that it was one possible reason. I also didn’t specifically say Harvard. I said “a top school,” and then “a school like H.” But since YOU single out Harvard, I’ll volunteer that my D was admitted to Harvard, and I was not completely certain she could hack it there. It does have a bad rep for being cutthroat, after all. The issue here isn’t that the young lady turned down Harvard, but rather that she turned down a group of highly ranked, great schools for an average school in Waco. It’s not like she opted for the likes of UNC, UVA, or UMich instead.</p>
<p>“Some students, despite gaining admission to a top school, then feel unprepared to attend due to some insecurity about their academic background or their ability to compete successfully”</p>
<p>Somehow I doubt that with this kid. Anyone who is valedictorian (granted there are 30,000 of them) and a perfect ACT (there are only 500 or so each year according to ACT board which puts her in an elite class at any college) can’t fear Harvard all that much.</p>
<p>Omg, here is that callow comment in another iteration. So helpful to the conversation.</p>
<p>The irony of it is, that obviously Lizzie herself must have felt it was noteworthy, or surprising, or unusual, etc. that she selected Baylor over all the other colleges that she named, otherwise what was the point in going public with it?</p>
<p>Bay, My husband was accepted to Yale in the 70’s and like your neighbor,chose not to go there. Had nothing to do with being scared to go there. He didn’t particularly want to go to a college his older brother was already at and also wanted to study engineering. CMU was the better choice in that regard. Not everyone is keen to go to places like HYP. It really is not the best choice for lots of kids for lots of reasons, and kids like Lizzie certainly have the right to decide that for themselves(and I don’t think she really owes anyone here an explanation). Kids sometimes do turn Ivy League schools down. As others have said, many kids who would be competitive in getting in to the very top schools , don’t even bother to apply. None of this is anything new. Glad Lizzie checked in to let us know she is happy at Baylor.</p>
<p>Not everything is about academics though. Hand-holding is not the norm at the elite schools. The students are expected to be extremely independent and self-starting.</p>
<p>When my D’s boyfriend from college (HYPS) visited over break, he commented that one thing he really appreciated about D was that she was so competent. I was a bit surprised, because my D hasn’t always been the most disciplined and organized of people. Compared to her high school peers she’s above average, but I wouldn’t have thought that would be her best quality relative to her current peers. I said, “Aren’t there lots of really competent people at your school?” He responded, “There are a lot of really smart people. That’s not the same thing.” Thinking about that, I realized that D had commented on being surprised at things like the teammate who couldn’t seem to ever find her way to practice for the first few weeks of school, and the girl she knew who turned down her school for one where she could live off campus as a freshman so that her mom could come and stay with her. There are indeed kids who can be highly-accomplished at home, with their parents as their support team, who can’t pull it off at a school when there’s more pressure and competition. </p>
<p>At my son’s Ivy, you had to submit an application, a resume, and a work sample to be allowed to join certain organizations and then work your butt off to earn a permanent position. Compare that with an average school, where my friend’s D simply became a reporter for the university without ever having taken a journalism class and without ever having written for the high school paper. One has to be willing to compete and challenge onself to improve at an elite school where many other talented kids are clamoring for the same opportunities. Not saying the OP wasn’t up for the challenge, since of course I know nothing about her personality. But there are kids who aren’t and know it.</p>
<p>It’s not about Harvard qua Harvard; substitute any elite school. It’s the concept that well, of course, everyone aspires to these elite colleges and the only reason anyone would turn them down for a “lower” school (financial issues aside) would be ignorance --* if they only knew better, * they’d see the light and make the right choice. </p>
<p>Look, <em>I</em> did - and I did on behalf of my kids and <em>I</em> would have a hard time justifying sending my kid to Baylor over any of the schools on this young lady’s list – but she has other criteria, for which Baylor apparently comes out on top. </p>
<p>Baylor means nothing to <em>me</em> other than some random school I’ve heard of in somewhere in Texas I’ve never been and don’t think I’m missing out on and I vaguely hear the name in the context of college sports, but maybe it’s important to her. You keep trying to assert that her reasons aren’t important. They’re not important to you, but they’re important to her and that’s all they need to be important to. </p>
<p>My D chose an all-women’s school. There are quite a few classmates who chose her school over Harvard, etc. Are they <em>wrong</em> for doing so? I mean, Harvard’s ranked higher and all.</p>
<p>The reason is that she didn’t like them as much as she liked Baylor. That’s all the reason there is.</p>
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<p>Is that true at the pre-application stage or only after the admitted-and-deciding stage? In other words, as an example, my kids determined that the Ivies and many other elite colleges weren’t of interest to them so they never applied. Was that disingenuous of them to say that their set of colleges that they were applying to was preferable, when they’ve never set foot on an Ivy campus? (Well, OK, D has, but that’s only for parties, LOL)</p>
<p>If you are referring to me, I said no such thing. Her reasons are exactly what I am looking for. I believe it is disingenuous to come forward with a statement that you determined one thing/object/place/college to be preferable to another, if you have not given both things equal consideration, including actually seeing/visiting them.</p>
<p>Bay, You really seem to be one of the few here who seems determined to get a reason from Lizzie (or at least one that would make sense to YOU and would satisfy you). That is doubtful you will get an explanation that would suit you, so you may want to save yourself the aggravation of checking back into this thread and finding you are not getting the answers you want.</p>
- ymmv - on the other hand, there are lots of lurkers.
QuantMech - Thanks for all your time and for being the underdog champion!</p>