<p>^Indeed! They are a bit preoccupied with class, symptom of a dead brain if you ask me.</p>
<p>“My last Manhattan rental apt appeared for sale there a couple of weeks ago. We paid $805/month in 1995 and it was selling for $875K this month.”</p>
<p>The rent on studio apartment in the late 70’s-med 80’s was something like $800/month and when it was going co-op my father was thinking of buying it for me. Think the price was something like $150K. I can kick myself he didn’t. </p>
<p>Almost all my friend’s and relatives kids, after graduating from college, moved to either SF or NYC. Most without jobs. They all seem to find away to manage - though tbh, most need to be subsidized for the first year. I can see my son following the same route (but I’d throw in DC as an option given what he is interested in,) though hopefully with a job off the bat.</p>
<p>“I think it is possible to live a middle class life in Manhattan, but I would say that the starting point for middle class would be about $75 to 80,000 and only if one is frugal and lucky.”</p>
<p>My niece and her DH earn about $100K together and not only can they not afford to buy an apt/house, they cannot even afford to have kids yet. I think eventually they are going to realize they will have to move out of the city.</p>
<p>Home ownership isn’t a necessary characteristic of a middle class life. However, to purchase in manhattan requires a lot of money.</p>
<p>Sure housing is expensive in Manhattan but fresh flowers are cheap! I used to buy my wife 2 doz roses every week, for $10, $9… even $8. Haven’t bought her fresh flowers in years… :(</p>
<p>Being able to afford a middle-class neighborhood is a key component of living a middle-class life, though…whether one owns or rents. It’s easy to see why so many people just starting out find themselves in more and more distant suburbs/exurbs. It does also seem that many younger people now insist upon things the older generations didn’t, though…more than one bathroom, garages, great rooms and so on.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, flowers are nice, but I agree with Lucy:</p>
<p>[What</a> I Want for Christmas - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC3PJDDuoCY]What”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC3PJDDuoCY)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You ought to do something about that. ;)</p>
<p>My husband grew up in Larchmont. I grew up 6 blocks from where we live today. He had the big house on a lot acreage. I grew up in an apartment. We lived, for awhile in the valley. I hated suburbia…my husband does miss the huge backyard. But he loves the 4 block drive to work. </p>
<p>If we lived in the New York area I would want to live in the city. Husband not so much. On the other hand, a daughter and I went to New York for a little vacation. We hit a heat wave. The buildings radiated heat. I was quite uncomfortable. We were invited by a cousin to visit Larchmont where they live. Without the buildings it was quite doable. </p>
<p>We do have a yard here, not big…but ok. House is 4,000 plus and truly isn’t big enough. But I love my house. </p>
<p>And I agree…buy the flowers!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>One thing I found interesting when we were house hunting was that we probably wouldn’t have had some of those things had my mother not convinced me I needed them. When my parents were starting out they probably didn’t make that much more than we do now, but they had no student loans and lived in a different time and could afford things that we probably can’t. My mom is having serious issues accepting that her grandchildren will have a “lesser” quality of life than her children did, especially since I went to college and they didn’t. And by “lesser,” I really just mean smaller shared bedrooms and no basement playroom. We live in an amazing city with so much to offer children and our house will be more than adequate, we made sure of that.</p>
<p>“It does also seem that many younger people now insist upon things the older generations didn’t, though…more than one bathroom, garages, great rooms and so on.”</p>
<p>This drives me absolutely crazy. I’m still in my starter home after 22 years! Was finally able to afford, after 16 years, gutting my wee kitchen, breaking out the back wall, opening it up and adding a great room. I still only have 1 1/2 baths and only a one car garage and my big bath still needs to be redone. </p>
<p>After I am done with tuition I’m finally going redo that bath to add a master bedroom and a bath. Going to take the smallest bedroom and turn it into a closet and bath and bump out from that a big bedroom.</p>
<p>My kids have been given so much more than us. I would hope they would tap into all the resource that’s given to them and accomplish more.</p>
<p>I think the baby boomers insisted on thing the olders generations did not have and also wanted larger…</p>
<p>Our kids are going to want their own things, but I see many kids graduating from college and living in small places with multiple roommates. </p>
<p>My kids’ places are pretty small. Smaller than Mary Tyler Moore’s first place on her tv show.</p>
<p>Are the kids going to want suburbia when they have kids of their own?</p>
<p>"We do have a yard here, not big…but ok. House is 4,000 plus and truly isn’t big enough. But I love my house. "</p>
<p>Ok…is the house 4,000 sq ft or the yard 4,000 sq ft or the lot 4,000 sq ft?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>That was the 1980s. I did that for several years.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I thought that her place was pretty big.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I think that many will choose based on the quality of education available. That might be in the city or in the suburbs.</p>
<p>It just struck me that many of the things that we consider to be part of the middle class lifestyle didn’t exist 40 years ago. Middle income people who purchased homes didn’t pay for extra cars and car insurance, internet bills, cable bills, cell phone bills, extra tv’s, computers, etc. As kids we took music lessons at school (for free) and did sports after school (for free). I’m sure others can think of more examples.</p>
<p>Well, there were cable bills ages ago. I remember our cable bill 30 years ago was $8/month - my roommate was responsible for that. There was one TV. No computers. No garage - we parked on the street.</p>
<p>The house if a little over 4,000 square feet. (4/5). The lot is 75000 square feet. We took out the garage to make a bigger back yard. And yes, we came back to the city for the public schools.</p>
<p>I always thought MTM’s apartment was so cool. Rhoda’s too.</p>
<p>So much of what the next generation wants is programmed by us. When our kids were little and one of them (usually DS) would ask “Are we rich?” I’d always respond that “we have food on the table, a roof over our heads, love in our hearts and a home to call our own, so yes, we’re rich.” I know that sounds cheesy and bit Hallmark Channel but we really want/hope our kids see the world beyond mindless consumerism. </p>
<p>I do believe they will have to see the world this way as this generation most likely will not have the financial opportunities ours has had.</p>
<p>My married kid and spouse have no kids but are already debating this. They just bought their first home. It’s in a city (not NYC) and the schools near them aren’t very good. They hope that the influx of young couples into the city where they live will improve the schools before they become an issue for them.</p>
<p>My (Catholic) church in Manhattan had more baptisms last year than in the previous 20 years. Lots of young families moving in. NYC public schools in areas like Battery Park City are bursting at the seams. </p>
<p>NYC actually has some good public schools and the # of them is growing. Some struggles with the issues created by parent fundraising. Many young couples are willing to give amounts like $5,000 to get what they want in the public schools vs. spending $40,000 for private schools. Families who can’t contribute are sometimes resentful of the newcomers. </p>
<p>As I’ve written before, many of the “kids” who grew up in our neighborhood now live here as adults. In some cases, this involves the parents handing down their apartments. I was stunned though to find out how much daycare at the local facility costs. It’s $30,000 a year!—and we are NOT a ritzy neighborhood.</p>