<p>“I was born in Manhattan and lived a middle-class life there until I started school”</p>
<p>Makes me wonder…again…what middle class means. Makes me wonder how it would be classified where I lived. Pretty sure it was what most would call “ghetto” by the time I left, but in the sixties it was Adesleigh park, and as middle class, or upper class as it got for black folk. And my relatives thought it was “the country”. I remember filling out a financial aid form saying they made about 30k…or maybe that was was the value our house. I don’t know, but I know there were up to three families in that house at a time, and I’m pretty sure it was less than 1500 feet. And I thought we were middle class.</p>
<p>I lived in the Bronx in the 80’s, near Montefiore Hospital, and I thought that was middle class too.</p>
<p>The census said median household income in Manhattan is 67,000.
How does that work? Because of rent control? Cheaper areas? People with median incomes living in poverty? You don’t need a car so you save money?</p>
<p>Median income is not “middle class.” There are many countries where there is no middle class. You don’t go, “Oh, in Malawi the median income is $6 a day, so that is middle class in malawi.” You say, there is no middle class in Malawi.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people who live on nationally defined middle class incomes in the NYC areas. The salaires are not a whole lot more, if at all, for those who are in jobs that are nationally at the those ranges. You work retail, for instance, NYC isn’t paying you more than you would in Atlanta. It’s the upper ranges of pay that stretch out more, and the opportunites to make more. My kids are experienceing the Big Apple on small paychecks right now. </p>
<p>You just don’t get the square footage, nice neighborhoods and vincinty to work that you may get elsewhere for the same money. But there are plenty of not so hot neighborhoods where people live. Not the cool places to live. My one son will be reniing a makeshift apartment in a private home, for instance,at a price that could get him a nice apartment in an apartment building in a mainstream area in some other city/suburb.</p>
<p>Cptofthehouse, This is probably too small to be statistically significant. I wonder how many people are getting support from others. I think there are some twenty somethings that are living in Manhattan and are receiving support from their parents. I just don’t know how many…</p>
<p>I think there are many…My D and her H live in a brand new rental building. 2 BRs start at $7K/month. Most of the tenants speak English as a second language and they are twenty-thirty something. I see people going to the pool/spa during the daytime so I don’t know if they hold jobs.</p>
<p>A few of my friends’ kids live in Manhattan, and I know the parents are helping.</p>
<p>Both my kids live in Manhattan but they are financially independent.
My D has expressed possible relocation out of Manhattan in a couple of years but my S’s job is Manhattan centric, specifically midtown centric and he starts work at 7AM till 6PM or longer so he doesn’t want to waste his time in long commutes. He also has to attend after hours business related functions. He rents 2 subway stops from work.</p>
<p>In HOnolulu, many of the homes which cost $600K + are only 1000square feet or less and only on 5000 sq ft lots or smaller. They were built 50+ years ago and often single wall wood construction. Commuting to work can take an hour or longer from one of these homes. These are in ok but not top neighborhoods.</p>
<p>D1 is currently still working 7am-10pm or later in NYC. She is also living 2 subway stops away, sharing a convertible 2 with a friend. She wanted to live in a hip area rather than UES or UWS, so she is giving up on the square footage. With her bonus and raise this Feb, she may get an apartment on her own. The question is whether she could get a studio or a one bedroom. I know D1 goes out for work and with friends whenever she could, and she has not complained to me about not able afford to go out. One advantage D1 has is that she has no loans to pay, no grocery bills (eats at work). She is financially independent. </p>
<p>D1’s friends who are living in NYC, a lot of their parents are helping. Kids who are making 30-50K , parents are helping so they could live in Manhattan. One friend who is making about the same as D1 (pays in her business are very standard) is living in an apartment way beyond what he could afford because of his parents’ help.</p>
<p>We have an extra bedroom and have asked D1 if she wanted to live at home. She thought we were out of our mind.</p>
<p>I wonder how much financial aid counselors really understand how expensive it is to live in NYC and the surrounding areas. I bet they look at someone’s income and think “you can live real nice down here in Atlanta”.</p>
<p>Households can be made up of just 1 person, for example, and I’m not sure how the definition works when there a bunch of roommates living in the same apartment. It is definitely possible to live in Manhattan fairly comfortably on a 67,000 a year income if you are only supporting yourself.</p>
<p>In some more traditional cultures, extended families live together, which can be seen as mutually supporting (because extended families living together lower costs for all members compared to living apart).</p>
<p>One of the odd side effects of the desirability of Manhattan is wage deflation in some fields. A surgeon I knew in Manhattan was making only about $90k/yr, about a third of which was production bonus for working ridiculous hours. </p>
<p>He got tired of the struggle and took a job in S. Dakota for 4 times them salary.</p>
<p>I remember people who went to school with me who ended up in med school or law school not working with a stay at home spouse, a child or two who somehow were living in nice houses, driving cars, wearing clothes and eating on NO income. By coincidence these people all had parents with money.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is a recent phenomena–there have always been well-to-do parents who have helped their kids. Trust funds have supported many adult children.</p>
<p>Oh, absolutely, there are kids helped by their parents ranging from full fare, like an allowance and parents paying for the apartment, to a handout here and there. My son lives in Manahattan, and as a poor, but not starving actor. When things get too tight, he comes home and loads up. He calls our house “Costco”. </p>
<p>Seriously, I do help out here and there, but do not give him an allowance. But if pasta’s on sale and I’m feeling flush, I’ll buy some boxes for him. If I see gloves that are on sale and they are his size and he needs them I pick them up.</p>
<p>Oldforte, my son could be living here too, but he told me he’d rather live under the bridge or in a homeless shelter.</p>