Middle schools in Pioneer Valley and Maine compared to Seattle & RTP?

Parent Cafe
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<p>YojimboJoe–it seems like you are wildly inconsistent here. To not want a pressure cooker, but ask for information about Lakeside, which is generally considered to be the toughest academic environment in the Puget Sound area? </p>

<p>If you want a nice, low key community that values education, look at the communities in the Shoreline School District, just north of Seattle. Innis Arden and Richmond Beach are lovely, overlook Puget Sound and have great views. Edmonds is another good choice: Edmonds-Woodway high school has an IB program. Edmonds is in the Lynnwood school district, which is a little bigger than Shoreline, but both districts have economic and racial diversity but still have a critical mass of parents who have aspirations for their children. </p>

<p>I would avoid Seattle Public schools like the plague–the atmosphere is polarized and toxic. Here’s a story which mirrors what parents I know have complained about: <a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2003645888_danny01m.html[/url]”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2003645888_danny01m.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I agree that the district and the board have a lot of problems- and if I had kids entering grade school, I would look a lot harder either at surrounding areas, or at private schools- however- actually “in” some of the schools, you don’t feel the district influence as much.</p>

<p>Just as my D at UCDS, we had a “headmaster” ( thats what he called himself), for a few years, who had a very different attitude re: the school than the impression we got/wanted, when D began in 1st gd ( he wanted more emphasis on * prestige & giftedness* ), as a 3rd & 4th grader, we didn’t have contact with him & it didn’t affect our experience of the school. IMO.</p>

<p>Seattle is also currently looking at two possible superintendents.
Haven’t met either of them, trying to reserve judgement, but I do agree with some of what Westneat mentions- I have experienced that a lot.
But for my D- while she does struggle, and much of her earlier years, she didn’t get the help she needed, possibly because she * is* caucasian, and it is assumed that whites- don’t need help- her experience now, in a diverse high school, with an excellent principal, and strong teachers, is 100% better than what I expected given her elementary school experience.</p>

<p>But that might be true in many large districts.
My sister for example has two kids who went through the IB program in Bellevue, she was happy with that- but it is a pretty divided school, IB programs are often implemented in schools, that have trouble attracting academic students.
But her son is attending Sammamish & doing running start ( as a senior) and she is homeschooling her 10th grader and plans to do so with her youngest son.</p>

<p>There are tradeoffs no matter what educational path you choose, the trick is to be aware of what you are giving up and how to compensate for it.</p>

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<p>Thank you fendrock, PackMom, jmmom, and Mombot (MA, RTP, ME and PS, respectively) for input on which schools/districts to research next. Our work’s cut out for us, for sure. </p>

<p>Marite/Mombot, you’re right in that I was being inconsistent in the type of schools originally listed. We’re looking for a nice low key community so I think Lakeside probably won’t be a fit and will look to other in-city schools like SAAS and Northwest, as well as districts like Shoreline. </p>

<p>I really appreciate all your input so far, and will post again with any general questions/observations and PM with very specific Qs, if I may. </p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

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<p>FWIW, Highland Middle School in Bellevue (public) has over 40% of its students eligible for free lunches, has an Hispanic population of over 25%, and is an IB junior high. It feeds Interlake High School, which likewise is less wealthy and more diverse than other schools in Bellevue. Interlake also has an IB program. This area of Bellevue is less than a half-hour from the U District since the commute is now the other way. The bulk of commuters go from Seattle to the Eastside in the morning, rather than the other way 'round. Going east to west is easy.</p>

<p>Not making any recommendations, just saying…</p>

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<p>Thnx EK for the link to the Seattle Times column. I guess we’ll have to evaluate each school’s administration and not just the teachers & other parents…</p>

<p>I haven’t written off Seattle public schools yet, but will have focus on particular elem/middle schools, like those in Magnolia, Ballard, Wallingford, etc.</p>

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<p>I read the Seattle Times every day. I’d write off the Seattle public schools if I were you. Nearly everyone with kids in Seattle who can afford private school sure has.</p>

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<p>Nearly everyone with kids in Seattle who can afford private school sure has.
I would agree that many who move to Seattle- because they want an urban area, don’t even look at public schools, because where they are from it isn’t even a consideration. It also is confusing- with knowing how to pick a school, the district isn’t very helpful.
( Its also really fun-:wink: to give my impression of the privates we know about to new residents- but then to also watch their face when they ask where my D attends school now- when I tell them an urban public high school- they just * can’t* imagine.)</p>

<p>[This guide is usually pretty good- although I haven’t looked at the update to see how accurate it is](<a href=“http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/schoolguide/”>http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/schoolguide/&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>My D who attended SAAS, had several friends who transferred to Seattle schools for high school- especially Garfield. ( and usually it was the kids who made the case for the switch, for example my youngest wanted Garfield, and I wanted her to attend a diff school, but I let her plead her case & decided that she made a good argument)</p>

<p>When you have gone to the same schools with the same kids- you often want a little broader experience for high school.</p>

<p>For example- her college roommate @ Reed, went through the APP program ( the highly gifted program) in SeattlePublicSchools through 8th grade, but then he chose * not* to go to Garfield as he wanted to meet some other students,and attended another school, even farther south in Seattle ( Franklin)</p>

<p>Garfield also has many teachers who could easily find jobs in the private sector, but want to teach in public schools.
[url=<a href=“http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=marcus18&date=20060618]Tsutakawa[/url”>http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=marcus18&date=20060618]Tsutakawa[/url</a>] for example, has been courted by Lakeside for years, but he wants to teach at Garfield and his daughters have both gone to( are attending) Garfield.
That program really can’t be compared to anything elsewhere- although Roosevelt in SPS, also has a very strong music program</p>

<p>I moan about the district alot, and I did have one D who attended private K-12.
But I also feel that there are things that you can’t get in private & I think those things are important.
For instance the private schools don’t have the ECs that publics do, my younger daughter had dance/drama/art/vocal in elem, and the private school depended on parents in those fields to offer those things- which depends on the group of parents you have.</p>

<p>Depending on your kid, and your family of course your needs and interests may be different.
For AA boys, public schools in Seattle can be difficult. For that matter if you pick the wrong private that can be very difficult as well.</p>

<p>I have heard horror stories regarding minority students from some of the citys parochial schools, ( for that matter from Lakeside, but that wasn’t students but teachers)- It is a concern that a large percentage of kids don’t attend public schools- but I also think very involved parents, can get a good enough education in a city school & I think there are a lot more considerations to what I want my Ds to learn, besides academics.</p>

<p>Re the papers- sometimes I wonder if those reporters have attended the same meeting I did, many of them are very young, and from comparing their reports to what I know, definitely have an agenda ( as do the columnists)

  • one disadvantage to Seattle- both our city papers suck- the Tacoma Tribune is much better*</p>

<p>It is a complex issue- sometimes I do wish that I had just gone private with both & as a blue collar family, I would also mention that many of the privates have very good finaid.
Blanchet for example- is a Catholic high school, but quite liberal considering,and much more affordable, than some secular schools.
One of Ds friends, I have mentioned- transferred from his private, attended a high school at the community college & then transferred to UChicago.</p>

<p>One of my friends daughters, also took running start classes, then transferred to Oberlin ( I assume that if they don’t get aid for Oberlin- they could have afforded a private prep day school in Seattle)</p>

<p>I don’t know about the places on the East coast- but if you want to stay on the West coast- Seattle does have a lot to offer. ( also look at the Islands- Vashon- Whidbey- Bainbridge- I especially like Vashon- rural feeling, but a short ferry ride to West Seattle and downtown)
( but we also know people who have moved to CA & I think that one consideration is so that their kids will get resident tuition for CA schools)</p>

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<p>The situation isn’t that different from SF. Here is a recent article in a series ran by SF Chronicle last year:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/31/MNGJIJ50T41.DTL[/url]”>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/31/MNGJIJ50T41.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I liked the part which says, “Last year, 29.3 percent of the city’s school-age population went to private or religious schools. About 10 percent of children nationwide and 8.7 percent of those in California attend private or parochial schools.”</p>

<p>I guess the only twist that’s somewhat unique to CA is the so-called “new white flight” from Bay Area public schools, per WSJ:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/markettrends/20051123-hwang.html[/url]”>http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/markettrends/20051123-hwang.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The article is controversial, and I don’t know how objective the underlying journalism was, but you can see how hyper academics-focused it can be at the better public schools. Faced a lot of the same pressure growing up (Japanese mom) so I think I can relate somewhat :-).</p>

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<p>Both my kids have been or are enrolled in the Seattle Public Schools. For middle school, both went to Washington Middle School, which, if one is in the Advanced Progress Program especially, has some outstanding teachers. Both attended, (one attends), Garfield HS. It combines neighborhood kids with the app cohort and others in one school. My kids love(d) the school. Garfield sends as many or more students to top schools as any school in the area, and I believe I read that about 90% go to college. We have been quite happy, with some and and downs, with those schools.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, here is the list of acceptances (where they chose to go, I don’t know) for my S1’s year:
Top Privates
Brown 10
Carnegie Mellon University 2
University of Chicago 4
Columbia University 4
Cornell University 3
Dartmouth College 5
Duke University 1
Emory University 2
Harvard University 6
Johns Hopkins University 3
MIT 1
New York University 9
Northwestern University 3
University of Pennsylvania 2
Princeton University 3
Rice University 1
Stanford University 17
Washington University in St. Louis 2
Yale University 7 </p>

<p>Top Publics
University of California at Berkeley 6
University of California at Los Angeles 3
University of Michigan 2
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 3 </p>

<p>And of course
University of Washington 164</p>

<p>Many as well to top LACs and other very good public & private schools including some great HBC’s.</p>

<p>We like the Mt. Baker neighborhood of Seattle and a bit south on Lake Washington. It is like living on vacation.</p>

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<p>I see now that YojimboJoe may be more interested in private than public schools. Also that the reason for a move is for the “kinder gentler” lifestyle and atmosphere in the schools.</p>

<p>A few comments: </p>

<p>We moved from your same area (Los Altos) to Maine for essentially your same reasons. I think it is virtually impossible to be in a top quality school (private) or school district (public) and avoid all taint of competitiveness, but it is possible to find a culture where the balance is much more what you are seeking. I do think you will find the culture you seek in the Portland, Maine area (whether you choose private or public schools). </p>

<p>Many people consider some of the public schools here to be the equivalent of very high quality private schools. I know we feel that way about the ones in our town, which is why we chose it. I think we would have found the same in the other towns which both consolation and I have mentioned.</p>

<p>Wayneflete, NYA and Breakwater are excellent private school options. Most families I know are extremely satisfied with all three of them. </p>

<p>If you have specific questions, please feel free to PM me.</p>

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<p>As a new member just perusing topics, I came across this one … I grew up in the Pioneer Valley, with family still there. I can’t speak much about public schools in all the towns (I went to public schools, but that was many, many years ago) but the area is loaded w/ private schools: Stonleigh Burnham (girls only; bring your horse), Northfield Mt. Herman, Deerfield Academy, & Williston Northampton to name a few. Plus, as you move south toward/into CT, there are more: Loomis Chaffee, Westminster, Miss Porter’s (girls), Ethel Walker (girls), Avon Old Farms (boys), Suffield Academy, Choate, Kingswood Oxford, … Petersens guide to private schools (you can google it) is a good source. Good luck.</p>

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<p>The schs you listed CBBB are high schools - - though Williston N’hmptn does have a small middle sch (about 50 students), wouldn’t recommend the school, though. </p>

<p>More importantly, they are boarding schools, some w/ large day pops (Willi, Loomis), but all have Saturday classes. Also, only Willi, Deerfield and NMH are in MA (and only Willi, in E’hampton, is in the Pioneer Valley). The other shcs are in CT (though Suffield and Loomis are nearby, just south of Springfield, MA).</p>

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<p>CBBBlinker, nyc,</p>

<p>Thank you for the school advice. As an ex-New Yorker, I’m familiar with most of these private schools but as nyc stated, they’re mostly boarding w/ HS only. Besides, the better ones are all “pressure cookers” to use another poster’s phrase, so they don’t really meet my criteria for a “low-key” elem/middle school</p>

<p>Deerfield has a middle school (day only of course), but our family would have to work in Greenfield unless we accept a commute to both school & work…yikes! So I guess for Pioneer Valley, a viable option presumably translates to West or Noth of Hartford (East Hartford or Windor areas).</p>

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<p>Yes, I know all the schools I listed are HS – guess I read the original post too fast! All have day students, and the Saturday classes are every other week. My son is a day student at Loomis, and the Saturday classes are really not a big deal. (We currently live near Hartford.) Pressure cooker is a relative term, I guess, since we recently moved here from what I’d consider to be a highly competitive area – so this seems more low key to me! :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Deerfield (the town, not the Academy) has 2 private schools for lower grades: Eaglebrook for grades 6-9, and Bement for K-9. In the Hartford area, Renbrook is pre K - 9.</p>

<p>Also, FYI, my hometown is Greenfield!</p>

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<p>Very cool, CBBBlinker. I’ll check out those three schools suggested for Hartford 'burbs and Deerfield.</p>

<p>Right now, I’m reviewing the various elem/middle schools’ math curricula. Since I’m a fan of “traditional” math pedagogy (Singapore Math, Saxon, etc.), I’m wary of schools which subscribe to the so-called “1989 standards” promulgated by NCTM. I’d rather not have to send the kids to Kumon or tutor them ourselves to compensate for lack of emphasis on core math skills.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.greatschools.com%5B/url%5D”>www.greatschools.com</a> can help you compare schools’ test scores and many other factors and may help you narrow the search.</p>

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<p>Re the math–excellent point. We were horrified to see the new Bellevue SD math program called Core Plus (no algebra and no geometry) You’ll need much more than Kumon to even make a dent in what they need to know. I thought that Kumon alone would be all you needed…The parents are revolting–see <a href=“http://www.wheresthemath.com%5B/url%5D”>www.wheresthemath.com</a>, but I feel sad to see so many kids from the gifted programs choosing fields in college that don’t require math. Some of the other local districts have already dumped this kind of program to return to a traditional kind of math, but I would be cautious if I were you.<br>
The other thing is that cheating is rampant in the high schools…it’s not pretty when they get caught in college. The kids are smart enough to be really good at cheating…The good thing is that you can go to BCC and get the right kind of math as a running start student. BCC has a large variety of classes and astronomy is excellent there, I’ve heard. Some of my daughter’s friends have been so happy at BCC that they really didn’t like the U of W upon transferring.</p>