Also special thanks to @Mary13 for starting all of this!
@garland Yay you finished it! I think it’s no accident that both Rosamund and Fred had trouble acting maturely. Fred was lucky that he set his heart on a young woman who insisted that he grow up as a condition of getting married. Poor Lydgate had no idea what he’d gotten himself into.
I’m still plugging along at a very slow rate. More and more it sounds very worth sticking with it. Thank you!
@mathmom yes! The Vincy parents were definitely not paragons when it came to instilling good values in their kids. Not awful people, just a bit shallow.
One thing that resonates with me from the Middlemarch comments is the part when Mrs. Bulstrode tells her husband that she knows all (maybe not really all!) and she makes it clear that she is still by his side. The Garths know and accept a lot about their partners’ weakness (but they are not such bad people) but the the other marriages really suffer when the weaknesses start showing up. Casaubon is afraid that Dorothea will stop loving him if she knows him better…and that’s probably true. What would have happened had he not died? Lydgate and Rosamund are in big trouble once they start seeing each other more accurately.
A lot of things are different here and now but that fear that we will not be loved if our real selves are exposed is a constant.
I think a corollary to that is – be honest to YOURSELF about who you are --because people tend to not do that. If you are honest about who you are, then you have a better chance of being the person your partner thinks you are. Mary knew herself well, and she demanded that Fred figure himself out before she would marry him, as an example. Lydgate has aspirations to be that scientist and medical researcher he saw himself as, but his “class” expectations were as much a reason they spent too much money as Rosamund’s demands–not on purpose, but because he didn’t recognize them on time. Also, his latent snobbery, which he’d never mean to have, prevented him from seeing Rosamund as serious spouse “material”, partly because she was not really in his class. He probably wouldn’t have flirted without intention with someone who was.
I think that Dorothea and Will were never anything but genuine with each other, long before they realized they were in love. And that’s one reason that they did fall in love with each other. Each saw the others’ best, and each wholly aspired to be that best.
@garland so glad you popped back in to comment about this book. I looked forward to your views, as someone who had read the book regularly, who chose “ Dorothea” as your screen name, a real fan of Middlemarch. I appreciate your summary.
I didn’t read Middlemarch, took the lazy way out and watched the TV series.
I’m always enriched in. many ways from these discussions, even if I hadn’t finished some of the books.
Thanks! Sorry i took so long. This online teaching just seems to spread out to soak up all available minutes (never mind too much social media…)
I felt from the beginning that I didn’t give Middlemarch its due worth. I should have allowed more time in order to read leisurely. Coronavirus news consistently distracted me. And so on.
However, I really like Middlemarch and so …
I decided to reread it. I’m currently on chapter 29 and I’m thoroughly enjoying it. I’m no longer confused by characters and their relationships to others. I’m also catching Elliot’s little hints of what’s to come. For example:
@ignatius you are the Michael Jordan of this online discussion group, ( can you tell I’m watching “The Last Dance”, he was astounding.
@mary13, if you check the by laws I’m sure there is a clause regarding anyone who reads Middlemarch, back to back within three months. Isn’t there a special award, recognition of this remarkable feat? Can’t remember the name of that award, mmmmmmm???
Let the discussion continue …
@ignatius how did I miss your most recent post? Bravo!
You guys need to wait for any “Bravo” or “special award” till I’m through with the book. I’m going slowly this time around. I don’t doubt I’ll finish though. Amazing how it flows once you know the characters. And I like these characters! Elliot writes such strong secondary ones: the Garth family, the Farebrother family. I semi-want Fred to win Mary but, knowing what I know now, I semi-want Farebrother to win her instead. Regardless, Mary ends up happy so I’m good with it 
While I’m not a Bulstrode fan, what a complicated well-written look at a man. Plus, as I said above, I’m having some fun catching hints of what’s to come.
[timidly lifts her hand] Can I play? I never have…
I read Middlemarch years ago and recall that I very much rooted for secondary characters: Mary Garth, Fred Vincy, Camden Fairbrother, and enjoyed the more ridiculous ones, like Casaubon…
but was always completely exasperated with Lydgate(and I think the reader is meant to be) and would have wanted to strangle Dorothea (I’m never sure whether the reader is meant to admire her or mock her or both). Her comsumption with her own goodness always felt so hypocritical for me. She never does anything, and it’s not just for being a woman in Victorian times. I liked Celia, who sees through her and loves her anyway (“Dorothea likes giving up!”) much better.
Favourite quote: “Sane people did what their neighbours did, so that if any lunatics were at large, one might know and avoid them.”
Oh please play! Book discussion are truly a case of “the more, the merrier!” And join the book discussion that starts June 1: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/2182898-and-then-there-were-none-and-whose-body-june-cc-book-club-selection.html#latest
Your favorite quote is one of mine also. It’s a really good example of the humor you find in Middlemarch. I laughed when I read it.
@Tigerle – Eliot does so give us all material to judge characters differently! I think it’s because she sees everyone with sympathy, and clear eyes, at the same time.
I like Celia too. I think she’s sensible and a nice person. She loves her sister. She’s comfortable with marrying the guy who wanted to marry her sister first. She doesn’t worry about things too much. The world definitely needs Celias!
Dorothea–yeah, she’s optimistic and idealistic, and she has had little experience with “real life” (true for C too, they just react to that fact differently). But what good she has done:
Talked Sir Chettam into taking care of his tenants better (he clearly only started doing that in order to impress her), including using the plans for new cottages that she drew up.
Also worked on her uncle to do the same, with less clear results.
Visited, brought food and medicine, and clearly knew, the tenants ( which could be filed under “the least one could do” but was more than any of the other gentry were doing.)
Gave Farebrother a life-changing job.
Rescued Lydgate’s reputation and probably his marriage (for better or worse) including giving him the 1000 pounds to disconnect himself from Bulstrode.
Was probably an equal partner with Will’s public and political career, though as a woman she wouldn’t get public credit for it.
That’s off the top of my head. I think Eliot loves her, even though seeing her flaws (like not ever having to know how much anything costs, till she gives up her estate.)
Lydgate–I think Eliot totally admires his ambitions to further science, but also sees his “spots of common-ness” – that he has poor judgment about women, that he expects a certain level of elegance and comfort because he grew up with it, etc. And how those flaws ultimately prevent him from following his heart in research and the advancement of medicine.
I think the only character in the book that never makes a wrong choice is Mary, though in doing so, she does take a huge chance with Fred, which ultimately turns out right.
I like hearing other viewpoints, too! 
I’ve now passed the half-way point in my reread of Middlemarch and am still enjoying it more the second time than the first. Shame on me for hurrying through the chapters the first time. I missed all the little ways Elliot spins her web.
I have inspired my daughter to do a first time read, which she has never done though she knows how much I like it. She’s reading very slowly (hands full with a toddler), but enjoying it. She told me she’s realized she needs to read with a pen to underline the good lines, and I was doing that too , again, so when she’s done, we’re going to compare what we underlined.
I was just cleaning up a neglected pile of paperwork on my desk and found a note with this written on it:
I paused for a minute–what on earth IS this?–then I remembered that at some point I had copied down a line from the mini-series, which I thought nicely summarized the respective wins and losses–in money and in love–of Fred Vincy and Mr. Farebrother.
It wasn’t even a legit quote from the book – even so, it was fun to be drawn back into the Middlemarch world for a minute – like visiting old friends.
I haven’t scribbled any notes about our June selections yet, but I’m enjoying the ride. See you here in eight days: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/2182898-and-then-there-were-none-and-whose-body-june-cc-book-club-selection-p1.html
I just finished reading Middlemarch for the second time. The work of it disappeared this time; I knew these characters. Struggling to understand or even place them disappeared.
I channeled Mrs. Cadwallader when speaking to my neighbor. I needed to decide whether to replace something around the house. I told her that “it won’t do to keep one’s own pigs lean.” Let’s just say my neighbor found me amusing.
Another take-away: Will argues with himself on whether or not to go to church at Lowick in hopes of seeing Dorothea. Obligation and intention war within him. I had an argument with myself a couple days ago and called the sides: obligation and intention. Like Will, intention won.
Delightful book.
I’m inordinately glad that it ended happily for those I liked. I only lack an ending that pleases me for Mr. Farebrother. He isn’t mentioned in the finale and I consider him an important part of the story.
And of interest (at least to me): https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/22/george-eliot-translation-of-spinoza-sheds-new-light-on-her-fiction
I knew nothing of Spinoza till we read The Weight of Ink, so to find that Eliot translated Ethics into English and how Spinoza’s humanity permeates her writing is of interest. Interesting how one book followed the other. CC Book Club continues to make me smarter but in a fun way.