Middlemarch - April CC Book Club Selection

[ignatius]

Chronological order (I think):

i. Dorothea and Casaubon go to Rome for their honeymoon

ii. Dorothea goes to the Vatican

iii. Naumann sees Dorothea in the Vatican

iv. Naumann points Dorothea out to Will

v . Dorothea quarrels with Casaubon

vi. Dorothea cries in her apartment in Rome

vii. Will visits Dorothea in her apartment

[ignatius]

A challenge - now in the order we’re told about them (without looking at the book, so probably not correct):

i. Naumann sees Dorothea in the Vatican

ii. Naumann points Dorothea out to Will

iii. Dorothea cries in her apartment in Rome

iv. Dorothea goes to the Vatican

v. Dorothea and Casaubon go to Rome for their honeymoon

vi. Dorothea quarrels with Casaubon

vii. Dorothea and Casaubon go to Rome for their honeymoon

Probably loaded with mistakes but yes the chronology doesn’t follow events as they happen. Now off to find my book and see how badly I did.

Feel free to correct me.

[Mary13]

^ @ignatius, I’ll leave it to @mathmom to check your work!

2. Chapter 15 contains some pointed remarks about the role we (yes, you and I) play in people’s failures. Indeed, the narrator of Middlemarch uses the first-person plural pretty often throughout the novel. How does it affect you to be drawn into the novel in this way? How do you think this strategy serves the larger purposes of the novel?

Being addressed by the narrator always draws me out of a novel, not into it. Still, I enjoyed Eliot’s commentary. It made me reflect a little more on the universal questions posed by the author. She wants us to think broadly, not narrowly. It also slows down the reading process, if you start to really ponder her questions, e.g.:

Among our valued friends is there not someone or other who is a little too self-confident and disdainful, whose distinguished mind is a little spotted with commonness, who is a little pinched here and protuberant there with native prejudices, or whose better energies are liable to lapse down the wrong channel under the influence of transient solicitations?

The answer is no; all my friends are perfect.

And after reading that 57 word sentence, I think I want our next book to be by Ernest Heminway. About now, I’m longing for some short, declarative sentences.

[ignatius]

@mathmom

One of the things that struck me about this book was that I would have loved reading it in high school, because it presents so many possibilities for meaty essays.

I would have hated reading this in high school. I never felt that I gave books their due consideration. I read as assigned but never had the time to keep going - other assignments and extracurricular activities too often limited time and enjoyment.

[ignatius]

@Mary13

^ @ignatius, I’ll leave it to @mathmom to check your work!

Already checked and neither are 100% correct.

I’ll leave it for someone else (@mathmom, maybe) to get it right.

[jerseysouthmomchess]

Enjoying the humor many are bringing to this discussion. Ignatius’s first post, Mary13, suggesting ranking in order wasn’t a fun experiment. mmmmmm, lets check in with her after another three weeks of quarantine. ?

She’ll even be checking Ignatius list! ?

[mathmom]

I’m not getting it right without looking. I have no idea. My guess then I’ll check and think about it.

REAL CHRONOLOGY (Guess)
i.Dorothea and Casaubon go to Rome for their honeymoon
iii. Naumann points Dorothea out to Will
vii. Dorothea quarrels with Casaubon
ii. Dorothea cries in her apartment in Rome
v. Dorothea goes to the Vatican
iv. Naumann sees Dorothea in the Vatican
vi. Will visits Dorothea in her apartment

BOOK ORDER (Guess)
i. Dorothea and Casaubon go to Rome for their honeymoon
iii. Naumann points Dorothea out to Will
iv. Naumann sees Dorothea in the Vatican
v. Dorothea goes to the Vatican
vii. Dorothea quarrels with Casaubon
ii. Dorothea cries in her apartment in Rome
vi. Will visits Dorothea in her apartment

[ignatius]

Nope - some of the same mistakes I made (which actually makes me feel somewhat better).

Anyone else want to try it?

[jerseysouthmomchess]

I thought I dosed off during the BBC series during those Rome scenes, which seemed out of order, now I know why !

[Marilyn]

I just couldn’t get into the book; same reasons as @bookworm - I want to find a character to like. I had watched the BBC series but admit I wasn’t paying attention to the timeline in Rome because I was too busy admiring a young Rufus Sewell.

[ignatius]

@Marilyn: But you’ll end up liking some characters very much.

[jerseysouthmomchess]

^^^^^ dozed typo above …
As I recall Dorothea sees Will first in Rome.

[silverlady]

I liked the story, but really disliked the book, if that makes sense. It could have been about 300 pages shorter, with less commentary. I felt the commentary just spoiled the story. I did enjoy the humor, and found it surprising with the tone of the book.

While we all know that George Elliot was a woman, I think that anyone reading the book would have figured it out. I don’t see a man writing this book as written.

I know most of you remember diagraming sentences. My mind kept wondering while reading the book about how to diagram those long long sentences. (I know, I am weird.)

[Mary13]

@@silverlady

I liked the story, but really disliked the book, if that makes sense. It could have been about 300 pages shorter, with less commentary.

I get it. At the beginning especially, I felt that the book was long-winded and disjointed; the second half seemed to really tighten up. So when I read the following, I thought “aha” – maybe that explains it:

The novel that we know as Middlemarch is actually the fusion (and completion, of course) of two different projects Eliot began at different times: a novel to be called ‘Middlemarch’ begun in 1869 (conceived of as the story of a reform-minded country doctor), and a story called ‘Miss Brooke,’ begun in 1870. Early in 1871, with about 50 pages of the first project stashed away and about 100 pages of the second completed, it occurred to her to fuse them into a broader narrative. What themes or problems do you notice that unify these two main strands of the novel?
https://middlemarchforbookclubs.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/questions/the-big-picture-2/

[Caraid]

The merging of 2 stories is really interesting and seems about right. @Mary13. I agree the second half of the book was an easier and more enjoyable read/listen.

[mathmom]

Rufus Sewell has the very definition of bedroom eyes!

I definitely got lots wrong with the timeline! Though to be fair, when I skimmed I still wasn’t sure what order was internal time correct and had to read more closely! I have some thoughts about what she was up to, but will wait till tomorrow to say anything.

This section of the book does have one of the quotations I remembered vividly from the first time I read the book.

How was it that in the weeks since her marriage, Dorothea had not distinctly observed but felt with a stifling depression, that the large vistas and wide fresh air which she had dreamed of finding in her husband’s mind were replaced by anterooms and winding passages which seemed to lead to nowhither?

And this is very funny too. Rosamond’s father I think kind of knows that Lydgate is not the right man for her, but…

Mr. Vincy was a little in awe of him, a little vain that he wanted to marry Rosamond, a little indisposed to raise a question of money in which his own position was not advantageous, a little afraid of being worsted in dialogue with a man better educated and more highly bred than himself, and a little afraid of doing what his daughter would not like.

[garland]

Dorothea is such an idol of mine, that when I first joined that “other” college site, many many years ago, that was my moniker there.

She’s not perfect, and she’s young at the start, and needs to learn, but from when I first read this as an undergrad, I was taken in by her intent to do good. And also recognized that, for a woman, how small were the opportunities to do so.

The difference in her mistake and Lydgate’s, is that she chooses Casaubon, wrongly, because she thinks that’s her way to do good. And Lydgate chooses Rosamund, wrongly, though knowing she’s a detriment to his wish to do good.

Though, as much as I have little patience for R, when she comes to D toward the end to set the record straight, I love that scene, because I know Eliot wants to give all her characters a chance to make the right choice, and R does that then.

[jerseysouthmomchess]

^ reminder I only watched the bbc production and I have many questions.

@Garland I love that you used Dorothea as your moniker, and understand why you would. She is an inspiring character.

it seems some dislike D because she chose Casaubon, but he offered her potential for Meaningful intellectual growth and work,

Also, it was brilliant plot design for D to be unable to marry Will because of C’s jealousy and restrictions in the will.

Did D not want to remarry because she could no longer use the money to help others ? Altruistic motives ?

Also, did D not realize she loved Will until she saw the scene with Rosamond ? And, then she abandoned the good works for love ?

Ultimately, her poor choice in first marriage, gave her the opportunity to choose love, and happiness, over money,

[Mary13]

@garland, yes! In that scene, Rosamond becomes a more layered and sympathetic character, rather than someone with a borderline narcissistic personality disorder. It’s not just that she does the right thing, it’s that for once, she genuinely feels an affectionate and powerful connection to someone besides herself.

FYI, the first four signs of narcissistic personality disorder are 1) no empathy, 2) no remorse, 3) entitled, and 4) deceptive. Sounds like Rosamond to me!

[garland]

Not to get too global here, but the book’s big theme, to me, is how people make choices–the easier, safer one, or the difficult, personally risky one which is ultimately the one that does good/right. Forgive me that i am so behind in my rereading so some of the instances are foggy to me, but we see it over and over–characters who are faced with a decision and must either choose what’s personally safe, or what’s humanly right.

And for my entire life, I have looked at people (and myself) and, I’ll admit, judged (but with empathy, I hope), how they make that decision.

Lots of examples these days.