<p>This is an interesting threead. While I never homeschooled, there are many families I know which have homeschooled. These are the most interesting people with interesting ideas and manners of expression. While I think it is a wonderful thing to do, I notice many have problems later when their kids are in the upper grades. Oftentimes, despite the resources the parents have difficulty with some of the required courses like algebra or chemistry. And I have met a few kids who I thought were lonely for companionship in their teen years, placing too much emphasis on acquaintances/friends met at what I consider extracurricular classes or events. But I do think there is a lot to say for homeschooling if done well.</p>
<p>Like mini and Susantm, I feel strongly that our family’s choice of homeschooling should not be construed as conveying a disrespect for schools.</p>
<p>My children attended public schools for the first few elementary grades and we saw many good things there—many dedicated, caring, and resourceful teachers who worked hard to inspire a love of learning in the children. </p>
<p>However, I also noticed that my children were naturally very independent learners, who seemed to thrive best when given a lot of freedom to set their own course, when given lots of time to think and reflect in a quiet environment, when free to wander outdoors whenever the spirit moved them–perhaps in the middle of a writing project. They preferred to read while sitting up in a tree or curled up in a cozy armchair. They often liked to sing as they worked on a math problem. They loved learning about literature by reading plays and poetry aloud in small groups without worrying about the noise bothering others working nearby. They enjoyed learning about history by declaiming famous speeches aloud while standing on our (sturdy!) coffee table. They wanted to learn algebra before they knew all the multiplication fact and wanted to learn calculus before they bothered with trig, etc. </p>
<p>While they were still in school, my husband and I could see that they were learning LOTS outside of school in their discretionary free time, without anyone pushing or prodding them–and we could also see that they were happier outside of school today.</p>
<p>It’s nice that some districts, like mini’s, are flexible enough to allow children to attend on an “a la carte” basis, picking and choosing educational offerings that supplement their home-based education. That is not allowed in our state.</p>
<p>However, our family has stayed involved with the public schools over the past decade that we’ve homeschooled. My kids have volunteered in the public schools, both our neighborhood suburban schools and nearby inner-city schools. </p>
<p>Although public school extracurriculars are closed to homeschoolers where we live, my kids have also organized community activities and welcomed school students as well as homeschooled students to join them–I believe the activities they have launched have enriched the entire community.</p>
<p>They loved the schedule flexibility to participate in library book discussion groups with senior citizens (typically held in the middle of the day), to serve lunches at the Salvation Army Soup Kitchen, to work with preschoolers in an inner-city daycare center, to perform in a traveling acting troupe otherwise composed of adults that put on musical theater productions in elementary schools throughout the area during the school day, to take college courses during their middle school and high school years with minimal schedule hassles, etc.</p>
<p>As you can see (and mini would agree), the word “home” in homeschooling is really something of a misnomer. It is really community-based education–the freedom to take advantage of all the educational resources in the community outside the confines of the school’s walls, to learn from spending many hours in a weekly senior citizen’s philosophy discussion group, to have the freedom to spend long hours immersed in the stacks of public libraries and university libraries, to develop longterm friendships with adults from a variety of walks of life as well as kids their own age, to go wherever the public transit buses go (not just the school bus!)</p>
<p>Our local public schools have a well-deserved reputation for excellence. We have worked with many kids who are THRIVING in those schools. I’m proud to know many dedicated public school teachers and I have learned a great deal from exchanging ideas with them. I have served as a community representative on district curriculum committees and volunteered in the schools myself, both with and without my kids.</p>
<p>I respect the choices of my friends who have chosen traditional schools as the best choices for their kids, and they, in turn, respect our family’s choices.</p>
<p>My kids have enjoyed their volunteer work in the schools, and they always knew they had the option to return to school whenever they chose, but they chose not to do so.</p>
<p>Backhandgrip:
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<p>It’s very true that many parents have difficulty with the high school subjects, especially in math and science. It’s also true that many schools have a problem with these subjects–there has been a lot of publicity about the nationwide shortages of qualified math and science teachers in the public schools. A lot of the math and science teachers in our country are not qualified in the subjects which they teach. (Part of this shortage is artificial and imposed by silly bureaucratic rules–there are people with Ph.D.s in math and science who could be terrific school teachers but who are put off by the bureaucratic hoopjumping and educational pedagogy courses required to teach in the public schools. I know former college instructors who have won awards for their teaching at the college level but who would have to spend a year taking pedagogy courses plus another half-year of supervised “student teaching” for certification before a public high school could hire them to teach AP math and science classes. Even if they did do the necessary hoopjumping, school districts would be reluctant to hire them. The public school salary structures in our state are such that school districts find it cheaper to hire a brand-new inexperienced ed school B.A. rather than a Ph.D. In these days of increasingly tight budgets, school districts are often pressed to fill classrooms with the least expensive alternative.)</p>
<p>I’ve known many terrific public school students who complained about dreadfully inadequate high school math & science teachers, and who said they were essentially forced to “teach themselves” the subject.</p>
<p>Actually, that may have been all for the best in some cases–they probably learned more by teaching themselves than having it taught to them.</p>
<p>Many homeschooled students take ownership of education and teach themselves many things, including math and science.</p>
<p>Not everyone, homeschooled or public schooled, has the initiative, resources, motivation, and confidence to do so, however.</p>
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<p>And I say exactly the same thing about institutional schools–there is a lot to say for public school education if done well–and I have indeed seen it done superbly. </p>
<p>I also, however, increasingly hear the laments of schoolteachers that the strictures of test-mania in this NCLB age are increasingly interfering with their ability to teach in the ways they believe to be in the best long-term interests of the children they teach.</p>
<p>cant say much except every homeschooled kid i met was a bit off when it came to being around other people, especially kids their same age.</p>
<p>and for those that homeschool due to bad teaching elsewhere. how can you ever expect your child to learn to adapt to situations in the real world if you spoon feed them their education??? having to tough things out and learn on your own is a part of life, i personally feel that you are just going to make it harder for them later on, but that is just my opinion, and everyone has their own.</p>
<p>We started out in the suburban public school (we have good ones in our area), but switched to homeschooling because the kids wanted to switch in order to learn topics in-depth, avoid the incessant busywork required to keep the class moving in tandem, and get a superior college-prep experience. Largely this has worked out for S, who just missed one question his last SAT I. D has more need for the “social” part of high school, and has decided to go back to the public school when we move in August. We do not yet know if this will be full or part time, but we will continue to be very involved parents who drive for the kids to learn, and really master topics that we think they need to know in life.</p>
<p>By the way, we also emphasized public speaking through classes in home-schooling cooperative, and at the local community college.</p>
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<p>Actually, many homeschool students choose homeschooling precisely because they DON’T want “spoon-fed” education–they’d rather teach themselves autonomously than have someone else spoonfeed them. Often they are interested in moving at a faster pace than their classroom experiences allowed, or going into more depth, or both.</p>
<p>Mainstream society has a preconceived notion that all students ages 6-17 need to be in a structured, supervised, micromanaged educational setting 6 hours a day (plus assigned homework afterwards.)</p>
<p>Interestingly, society also seems to accept that an average about 2 to 3 hours per day of a structured classroom setting is sufficient for students ages 18-21 (and those limited hours are also deemed sufficient for preschoolers and kindegarteners as well.)</p>
<p>Realistically, all of us–of any age–are learning all the time. Different learners may thrive best with different amounts of structured group educational experiences–and age is not necessarily the sole criterion determining how much structured, formal group education is optimal for any given individual.</p>
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<p>I know lots of homeschoolers, and the overwelming majority get along as well or better than their schooled age-mates in a broad range of social settings including with peers. Nonetheless, some don’t, and I certainly have met a few who fit the stereotype you are referring to. But homeschooling is probably a result, not a cause. Homeschooling is a particularly attractive option for kids who might not fit easily into a standard school setting because they are “different” in some way. Many of these kids have actually tried school first, and switched because they did not “fit in” at school. I would say this is particularly true for very smart kids who may not share the mind-set of typical age-mates. For an interesting essay on the ability of very smart kids to fit in to traditional American high schools, see Paul Graham’s essay “Why Nerds Are Unpopular” <a href=“http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html[/url]”>Paul Graham;
<p>texas137: I change my opinion after reading your reply…like you say, most homeschooled kids seem different to me probably not because they are homeschooled, but because they were different since the beginning, and thus chose to be homeschooled to better suit their style. </p>
<p>although i will say that keeping them homeschooled isn’t the best remedy for being “different”, because while that might be the right environment for you, you cant remain in it forever.</p>
<p>homeschoolmom: the “ideal” and theoretical structure of what you think schooling may be like is far from what actually occurs, I can assure you that. students are far from micromanaged.</p>
<p>and while you mention time tables, you might also want to think while college students attend class 2 to 3 hours a day as compared to high school students who attend classes 6 hours a day, your college course is strictly business. when 2 o clock starts the professor begins his lecture, while the actual amount of teaching that occurs in k-12 is minimal due to distractions.</p>
<p>however as you said, learning is an ongoing process.</p>
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<p>Homeschooling is not meant to be a remedy for being “different”. Assuming they are not actively isolated, people who don’t fit in well with random groups of their age-mates are not necessarily going to change based on whether or not they go to school. But homeschooling may keep them from being miserable while they are preparing for an adult life they will get to create for themselves to a large extent. No matter how weird you are, there are others in the world who are like you, or who at least appreciate/tolerate/understand people like you. It is much easier to find those people as an adult in the real world than as a student confined to the school world. There are many more choices and a lot more diversity in adult life. Adults can find niches where their differentness is a plus, or at least a neutral.</p>
<p>“although i will say that keeping them homeschooled isn’t the best remedy for being “different”, because while that might be the right environment for you, you cant remain in it forever.”</p>
<p>I actually don’t know any homeschoolers who plan to continue it forever… :-)</p>
<p>My older son has Tourette’s syndrome. It took us two years to get it diagnosed, while he exhibited such symptoms as yelling out, jumping up and down, blinking excessively, etc. When we asked the doctor, he would say, “Oh it’s just nervous habits. When the kids at school tease him, he will stop.” Fortunately, our son was homeschooled from the beginning, so he did not have to put up with such teasing, which almost certainly would have occurred. By the time my son started taking some classes at the local school in junior high, he was mature enough to be able to explain to a kid who teased him exactly WHY he did those strange things. I doubt he would have been able to do that in 2nd grade, when his symptoms started. Homeschooling provided him time to mature, self image intact, and to face such things when he was more ready for them.</p>
<p>My younger son is very happy we homeschooled him, for a number of reasons–some explained earlier in this thread. In high school, he attended public high school part-time and was quite popular and very involved with other kids through music, tennis, and many other activities. In fact, when the school board ruled he could not take part in graduation in any way, some kids in one of his classes got up a petition in his behalf and got over 250 signatures within just a few days. Obviously this is not some weird misfit. 
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<p>Take any schooling option and you will find some “misfits” and some really outstanding kids. Homeschooling is no exception. The advantage of homeschooling is that it is much more flexible than most other options and can be adapted to suit the children being homeschooled.</p>
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<p>Actually, if one considers homeschooling in the broadest sense of the word–as self-directed learners–many homeschoolers do continue it throughout their lives (even though they may also choose to attend educational institutions at some point.) </p>
<p>Indeed, even though I myself attended traditional schools K-12, college, and grad school, I consider myself a lifelong homeschooler, because I think the most important and valuable things I’ve learned throughout my life are things I learned on my own, outside of school.</p>
<p>And some homeschoolers never do enroll in institutional schools. </p>
<p>Sarabeth Matilisky decided to go to “Sara College,” her playful pet name for her own personalized unschooling education, living and learning on her own in Boston, away from her family’s NJ home, during her college-age-years, while working as a paid intern at the Boston Science Museum, publishing a book, starting up a business as a “personal chef,” and more. (All of this came after she became possibly the first woman ever to bicycle across the country solo and unaccompanied at age 17, an amazing learning experience in and of itself.)</p>
<p>You can read more about Sara Matilisky’s philosophy and approach to education and life here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/0306/MayJune03.pdf[/url]”>http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/0306/MayJune03.pdf</a></p>
<p>(Her particular article “What is education” begins on page 14, but all of the articles in the magaine reflect a similar philosophy that learning doesn’t have to happen solely in conventional institutions.)</p>
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<p>I don’t disagree with your assertion that “the actual amount of teaching that occurs in K-12 is minimal due to distractions,” but I fail to see why you think that statement supports your overall thesis that confining K-12 students to stay within the walls of conventional school buildings for 6 hours a day is the best educational approach in general.</p>
<p>Like Susan’s sons, my children spent some time in public schools during their K-12 years. (Susan’s sons were allowed to enroll part-time, while my children spent some time as volunteers, and also spent some of the early years of their education their as well.) In fact, my children spent time in a wide variety of public schools, meeting and working with inner city students they never would have encountered if they’d simply stayed enrolled as fulltime students in our neighborhood suburban schools. I don’t see how confining them to a single school system for 6 hours a day for all 13 years of K-12 would have improved their educations.</p>
<p>Homeschooled kids vary as much as schooled ones do. I think the major difference is the very first one I posted. We spend what is the equivalent of $35k/year on the kids’ education, but without the cash. If the kids turn out “better” (as statistically they seem to), I think we can essentially chalk it up to this. It’s not much different than the advantage that the Exeter and Andover kids get, really, except the family incomes of those “attending” tends to be much, much lower. The $35k/year allows for individualized attention, personalized education plans, learning at one’s own pace, all necessary remediation if called for, potentially broader use of technology, a world of extracurricular pursuits, expanded mentoring options, travel, and 24-hour learning environments. I don’t think that’s very hard to understand.</p>
<p>I doubt many of us resort to phonics in utero, even though it is “proven to improve school readiness”. <a href=“http://www.babyplus.com%5B/url%5D”>www.babyplus.com</a> (Would not using it be a form of child neglect?) ;)</p>
<p>“I fail to see why you think that statement supports your overall thesis that confining K-12 students to stay within the walls of conventional school buildings for 6 hours a day is the best educational approach in general.”</p>
<p>Because not everything you learn in school comes from the textbook or has to do with algebra and chemistry.</p>
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<p>I would certainly agree with that. It’s just as true that not everything unschoolers learn outside of school comes from the textbook or has to do with algebra and chemistry. (Indeed, Sarabeth Matilsky learned an awful lot of such non-book, non-academic things on her cross-country solo bike trip at age 17! She was, by the way, traveling to the annual “Not-back-to-school camp,” where unschooled teens from across the country gather each year to share some unique non-book, non-academic kinds of learning.)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nbtsc.org/index.htm[/url]”>http://www.nbtsc.org/index.htm</a></p>
<p>Bubblekid - not everything you need to learn in life comes from school. Many homeschoolers believe that school interferes with the most important part of education.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to know about the long term implications of home schooling vs. attending school. Sociologists believe that schools are an important part of our secondary socialization, and it’s most children’s first exposure to being graded or evaluated for their achievements. Also, in good schools, kids learn from their peers. (Or maybe smart kids learn from their peers.) Maybe the question shouldn’t be “how are your kids?” when they are young and in the the process of being schooled or homeschooled, but “what kind of citizens,children, employees, spouses, neighbors, parents, etc. did they turn out to be?” after they are grown and their formal education is complete.</p>
<p>Homeschooled kids also have peers from whom they learn. Their peers, however, do tend to come from a wider range of people than those of kids in school, since those in most schools are pretty much confined to classes where the other kids are about their same age. Personally, I think it is better to be able to interact with all ages than just with one’s own age group. From the reports I have heard, homeschooled kids do tend to be better at socializing, particularly with different age groups. (There have been studies done.)</p>
<p>My sons, 22 and 18, are doing great. My older son just graduated from Stanford, is doing online translating work part-time at the moment, and has applied to teach English in Japan for a year. My younger son just finished high school. He has worked a couple different jobs during school and summers and has received outstanding recommendations from his employers. He also gives private trumpet lessons, and his students and their parents seem to think he is pretty good.</p>
<p>Remember, it is only within the quite recent past, historically speaking, that most kids have attended public schools. Somehow in the centuries before that, kids managed to become socialized and carry on in society.</p>
<p>If you would like to pursue the question, there is a book called <em>After Homeschool</em> by Tamra Orr that tells about a number of graduated homeschoolers and what they are doing now.</p>
<p>I think a more interesting question, at least for this board, would be to look at the rate of college & college graduation for homeschooled kids. While I am aware of many homeschooled kids who are successful in college, my own observation among the homeschooling families I know personally is that it is hard for the parents to motivate their kids toward a traditional college education. Typically the kids I’ve known do start taking community college classes as teenagers, but they don’t seem to be particularly focused on earning a degree or moving onto a 4 year college. I think that they lack the peer pressure that I have observed as a powerful motivating factor around 11th grade for each of my kids – when their classmates all start talking about colleges, SATs, & the like, its hard not to get caught up in it. </p>
<p>The homeschooled kids I know also seem to have less of a desire to leave their homes; they’re the ones still living at home in their 20’s. They are not lazy - they have jobs and may be attending community college part time; it’s just that they are still at home and quite happy with the situation. This may be a tribute to the closer family ties and relationships with their parents that homeschooling has afforded… but again, that cuts against the idea of moving away to go to school. (My kids couldn’t wait to leave).</p>
<p>It’s also possible that the homeschooled kid may also not feel quite the same pressure to do X at a certain age – just because they are 18 doesn’t mean they have to go to college. Everything in its time … and if they don’t feel ready or sure of their major, why not wait? </p>
<p>However, I realize that my own experiences may be off base – I’m just basing it on a handful of homeschooling families I know. I know plenty of high school grads that didn’t go to college either - so maybe statistically, its about the same. But I do see the transition from homeschooling to a college environment being more of an adjustment for a kid who has not already spent his formative years sitting in classrooms … if the idea of independent learning and “unschooling” persists, then a traditional college is just a different stage of a regimented, organized, group-teaching environment. I can see how a homeschooled kid would balk at the idea.</p>
<p>There are no good outcome studies, as far as I am aware. I am willing to bet that you’d find less crime and delinquency, less substance abuse, less child abuse and neglect, less domestic violence, less teen pregnancy, fewer sexually transmitted diseases, and broader community participation. When looking at an entire population, these are the data that count. The very limited (and probably skewed) data that are available can be found at <a href=“http://www.nheri.org%5B/url%5D”>www.nheri.org</a></p>
<p>We do have some data from ACT. Homeschoolers (this year) scored on average 3 points higher than the rest of the population, or roughly an entire standard deviation higher. I’d be willing to wager you’d find the same at the fancy prep schools, and for the same reasons: the $35k/year education achieves results.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, the college admissions people with whom I’ve been asked to consult tell me that homeschoolers have any easier time adjusting to the college environment than the public schoolers do (I have no idea about the preps, and didn’t ask). And the reasons they cite are rather obvious: college differs from high school to the degree that it is not regimented, that there are choices, that one has to maintain one’s own schedule, and that one is expected to think for oneself. Every private college I’ve spoken with tells me the same thing: when it comes to homeschoolers, they want more of them.</p>