<p>@Pizza,
I don’t understand the point you are trying to make with your comment</p>
<p>I haven’t read this thread since post #299 I believe. So I am jumping in here… </p>
<p>The main issue is that students are arriving at college unprepared. Has it occured to anyone that the elementary, middle school and high school teachers are to blame? I have friends who are educators(now prinicipals) and are frustrated by the lousy teachers that fill our schools. These teachers trek in from the suburbs where their offspring get the best education, while they dole out a *****ty education, to the poor masses year after year. And then when they are called on it, hauled in on the carpet, they take great umbrage. Has anyone here brought this fact up? That teachers are failing our kids? I am sure that none of you AA misanthropes will beat that drum, but will cheerfully beat the AA drum is wrong until your hands are bloodied!!</p>
<p>It’s more than a little pathetic that for some, the part that gets them the most upset isn’t “blacks and inner city students don’t have the resources that other kids have so too much potential is lost” but “boo hoo, the diamonds in the rough took away the spot at Harvard that was owed my kid.” It speaks volumes about worldview and ethics.</p>
<p>If BELIAVSKY(who began this thread) really cared, he would do something about poor kids and the terrible education that they receive. He would want to get to the root of why they are arriving unprepared. But he doesn’t care, b/c its those people over there. He feels it doesn’t/won’t affect him in any way. But sadly, it effects us all. Sooner or later. All of lifes ills visit our doorstep in one way or another.</p>
<p>@NewHavenCTmom,
Did you see the documentary “Waiting for Superman?”</p>
<p>Absolutely!!!</p>
<p>What I found to be so ironic was that the only student to get picked 1st round of lottery picks was the high school student from the burbs… all the other kids, were left in the learch. Funny how she came out with that winning/golden ticket. It was nice to see that in the end, the young man was picked to go to the boarding school… I believe his name was Anthony? But that was after weeks of feeling rejection and disappointment. Its sad that only a handful of kids get the best education, from teachers that truly care and are invested in EVERYONES future. Not just their own or that of their children/those who look like them…</p>
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<p>Yes, it would. Just as the female community would be better served by having more STEM majors, and the Asian community would be better served by having more studio artists, and the male community would be better served by having more social scientists and teachers. Or whatever.</p>
<p>But that is not your decision to make, nor does it mean URMs should not be accepted if they have the overall aptitude to handle the work in whatever major they pursue. As long as students fall within the RANGE of accepted applicants to a college–which the minority kids at Duke, Harvard, etc. do–they can choose what path they want to take when they get there. Many, many students–not just URMs–change majors when they arrive at college. Maybe, as NewHavenCTmom suggests, we will someday solve the problem of preparation in math and sciences at our worst-performing schools. And we should. But until then, why shouldn’t a bright, motivated URM WHO QUALIFIES OVERALL for admission to a leading university have the chance to give it a try? Do you think a kid’s classmates from an inner-city school say “well, Jackson was the first student from Underperforming H.S. to get into Yale, but he ONLY got in as an anthropology major…it’s not like he’s in biochem or anything”? No. Of course not. The difference to that kid, and his community, from seeing him succeed can have a much bigger and more positive ripple effect than yet another white or Asian kid from some prep school making the cut.</p>
<p>@NewHavenCTmom,
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<p>Here are some ideas that I think would help poor black kids achieve more educationally:</p>
<p>Decriminalize drugs and treat drug abuse as a public health problem
Criminalizing drugs increases their street value and makes people who traffic in it rich—haven’t we already learned that from the wealth Al Capone and Joe Kennedy amassed during Prohibition. In poor communities, gang members get rich from dealing drugs and end up becoming destructive role models for kids. Additionally, the War on Drugs has had a disparate affect on the black community by imposing much harsher penalties for illicit drugs more prevalent in the black community (crack) than illicit drugs more prevalent in the white community (cocaine). The result is that so many black kids are growing up without a father around because the men get locked up. It is an int’l scandal. </p>
<p>Get rid of the teachers unions
The unions exist to serve the teachers, not the kids. Right now, you can’t fire an egregiously bad teacher nor give merit rewards to outstanding teachers. </p>
<p>Offer school vouchers
I don’t know why people keep invoking separtion of church & state, when college kids can use gov’t funded grants at religious-affiliated universities</p>
<p>Offer more public boarding schools
I was amazed in the documentary “Waiting for Superman ” that 1) public boarding schools even existed outside the realm of the magnet boarding schools like North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics (NCSSM), and 2) the strong demand for them in poor communities. If society can’t eliminate the crime & dysfunction in a low SES community, it seems that a significant number of parents would like to get their kids out of the community </p>
<p>None of these ideas are going to solve the education problem overnight. But right now entrenched interests will not even permit an honest public dialogue</p>
<p>If AA action was done away with, it wouldn’t actually change the admissions picture for a lot of those white and Asian kids that think they are being wronged by it – most of the ones who didn’t get in still wouldn’t get in. But they wouldn’t be able to say that somebody stole their spot anymore.</p>
<p>“well, Jackson was the first student from Underperforming H.S. to get into Yale, but he ONLY got in as an anthropology major…it’s not like he’s in biochem or anything”?</p>
<p>Well, having attended the 2012 Yale graduation, I can tell you that employers cared a great deal. One of the student speakers (English lit perhaps) gave a speech about her difficulties in the job market. She tried to make it funny, but my understanding is that perhaps almost half of the Yale non-STEM grads were unemployed as of graduation.</p>
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<p>Yes they would, the athletes, legacys and geographically desirable would still be culprits of the theft of <em>their</em> spot.</p>
<p>Good point, GA2012MOM; I keep reading in this thread about how that’s not an issue, for for a lot of people it is. And if there was no AA, it could become more of one.</p>
<p>Our issue issue, of course, is that there isn’t a strict definition of merit – colleges can define that for themselves.</p>
<p>@sally305,
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<p>From the Duke admissions data, more than half the URMs started Duke at STEM. Then they changed to less demanding majors at a higher rate than the white STEM majors did. The desire is there among the URM students, but it seem that the preparation during K-12 was not. </p>
<p>The challenge is to help URM kids to be prepared to handle the rigor, hence my suggestions in post #489</p>
<p>My dd14, excels in all subjects/works hard to maintain her grades & is even taking a course at a local university… She does well in science and math(though math is the bane of her existence, she still does great, and has taken 2 math and 2 science courses 10th & 11th grades). </p>
<p>But her love is writing, language and other humanities driven subjects. Would I love for her to focus on math and science in college? Of course, but I want her to follow her interests… which may end up being STEM when she enters college. But for now, she wants humanities… She eventually hopes to attend med school. Which has always been her dream. </p>
<p>@GMT My friend has just fired 3 teachers d/t poor performance… even after given many chances to improve/support, they still refused to get their acts together! So out the door they went… :)</p>
<p>My dd14, excels in all subjects/works hard to maintain her grades & is even taking a course at a local university… She does well in science and math(though math is the bane of her existence, she still does great, and has taken 2 math and 2 science courses 10th & 11th grades). </p>
<p>But her love is writing, language and other humanities driven subjects. Would I love for her to focus on math and science in college? Of course, but I want her to follow her interests… which may end up being STEM when she enters college. But for now, she wants humanities… She eventually hopes to attend med school. Which has always been her dream. </p>
<p>@GMT My friend has just fired 3 teachers d/t poor performance… even after given many chances to improve/support, they still refused to get their acts together! So out the door they went… :)</p>
<p>Would the URM community be better served if they had more people in places of power like the White community?</p>
<p>The answer of course is yes, but unfortunately this is not the case.</p>
<p>We don’t necessarily need more URM graduates in STEM fields, we need more URM’s holding positions of political power. Then URM’s wiill get the representation needed to support their causes.</p>
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<p>There are large racial achievement gaps even within schools, where students have the same teachers and curricula. Being taught by white teachers does not hold back Asians for some reason. The differences in teacher quality that do exist between mostly white and mostly black schools may occur because good teachers want to teach in less chaotic schools where students are more respectful of them and interested in learning.</p>
<p>@smileygerl,
Yes, it would be better. And good thing is, it is happening. The most powerful man in the world is a URM. The U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. is a URM. The CEO of American Express is a URM. And the list continues to increase every day. The U.S. has come a long way since Jim Crow…</p>
<p>GMT,</p>
<p>It is happening but equality in this area is still very lopsided, you know that.</p>