<p>Most consider the second tier to encompass the top 15 universities excluding HYPSM as they are in the top tier.</p>
<p>There are plenty of URM’s to fill the above schools with scores which are in range. CollegeBoard.org and ACT.org publish these numbers.</p>
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<p>Less than 1 in 8 = 12.5% acceptance rate. Certainly you’re aware that there are plenty of top tier colleges with acceptance rates higher than that. Please don’t be one of those who thinks that HYPSM is all there is; you will lose all face validity / credibility.</p>
<p>Some of you have got to be kidding that you consider “top tier” so narrowly.</p>
<p>@PCHope,
So you think Philotvitist is being self-superior?</p>
<p>Oh, that’s how they really think. Scarcity mentality. HYPSM = lifelong success. Anything else - do you want fries with that? The shame!</p>
<p>They really don’t get that HYPSM offers 30,000 opportunities and the next 20 or so colleges offer 25,000 opporunities and the next 20 after than offer 20,000 opportunities - of which any one student can only take advantage of half a dozen.</p>
<p>My white 2140/3.6 GPA stole a lot of rightful spots. 
(Unhooked too!)</p>
<p>A number of colleges run summer sessions for kids with potential who are not quite up to speed due to lousy schools. I think that’s fine.</p>
<p>As to the issue why some URMs might perform more poorly in a classroom while the white or Asian students are doing fine. There are at least two possibities. One is expectations on the part of the teachers. (Remember the study done where kids that the teacher’s thought had IQs over 100 did better than ones who they thought were below average? (In fact that numbers next to the student’s names were locker numbers.) </p>
<p>It’s also possible that many of the poorly performing students may come from more chaotic family situations.</p>
<p>Traditionally top tier universities in USNWR were the top 50 (which included Tufts.) 
They dropped the distinction between first and second tier quite a few years ago.</p>
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<p>Oh puhleez. No one thinks that way except people who are brand new to this country who don’t know any differently and have an excuse, or nerdy high school seniors with no real-life experience. In America, in 2012, it is ludicrous to suggest that HYPSM is “top tier” and the next 20 or whatever are “second tier.” Bears zero relationship to any kind of reality whatsoever.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl,
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<p>The incivility that comes out of you is jaw-dropping. I’m outta here.</p>
<p>“Yes discrimination still exists, but America has come a long way. When do you think AA should no longer be needed-- never?”</p>
<p>Perhaps the greatest failing of the Boomer Generation is not teaching its young the value of critical thought. Those who advocate eliminating AA haven’t a clue as to the effects. The clear answer for those top-tier schools the OP feels so discriminated by is … (wait for it) … no change in admission practices. Ignored are well-considered counter-questions like “how does society benefit by under-represented groups being further diluted in favor of over-represented groups?” (Which BTW is the reason eliminating AA won’t result in more slots for over-represented groups. Believe it or not, society has more pressing issues than getting a handful more white kids into Harvard.)</p>
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I’m not sure I understand what this means. Top decile of what? Do you mean the SAT scores for their entire range of admitted students falls within the top decile of scores for all college bound students? Or that their average SAT is in the top decile of something? I’m probably being dense here.</p>
<p>Ya know, even lousy high schools can offer APs and there will be kids who, with inspiration, smarts and determination, will excel. Even if someone assumes grade inflation or dumbing down, many of these bright, motivated kids are getting 4 or 5 on the AP tests, taking DE, have “in-range” SAT/ACT, etc. Plus the school leadership and community involvement. </p>
<p>In the process of advocating better schools, better teachers, mentoring, addl programs, etc, we should ackowledge there are these bright lights kids out there. Today.</p>
<p>PG Bears ZERO relationship to any kind of reality whatsoever??</p>
<p>[Global</a> Companies Rank Universities - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Global Companies Rank Universities - NYTimes.com”>Global Companies Rank Universities - NYTimes.com)</p>
<p>The existence of rankings doesn’t mean that therefore only the very tippy-tops are “tier one” and everything else is chopped liver.</p>
<p>PG I didnt say that. 4500 other people surveyed have a different perception than you. You said ZERO.</p>
<p>Mississippi State has a much better football team than Harvard. If Harvard is Tier 1 then obviously so is Mississippi State.</p>
<p>(Alternately stated, you can come to most any conclusion when you cherry-pick your facts.)</p>
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<p>I think you’re overestimating how much natural talent goes into doing well on Olympiads. I can guarantee that the vast majority of USAMO qualifiers have done some sort of preparation for USAMO, whether it’s as little as participating in other math contests, to spending thousands of dollars on math camps and classes. One 3-time gold medalist at the IMO once mentioned that he only got in the 80s the first time he took an AMC. I don’t think people are getting carried away at all.</p>
<p>*The incivility that comes out of you is jaw-dropping. I’m outta here. *</p>
<p>Sorry for not warning you ahead of time. Have you met the bodyguards yet?</p>
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If I’m not mistaken I believe her child that applied to Northwestern currently attends Northwestern, although I may be wrong. I also believe she was not particularly anxious for either of her children to attend her alma mater.</p>
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<p>I have no desire to prove or disprove such. They are all great schools. I’m happy with the education I received. If some people don’t like NU - oh well, life goes on, not my problem. </p>
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<p>You’re clearly a very bad stalker, since my kid did get in at Northwestern. And bovertine is correct, we deliberately took it off the table since we wanted our son to carve his own path, and only put it back on the table when he dragged it back onto the table. He was right and we were wrong. Of course, it’s not a school for everyone. Shrug. To each his / her own.</p>
<p>Please cut out the personal attacks, people. These are not helpful and they do not advance your arguments.</p>