<p>Because of the language barrier, many Asian immigrants are literally voiceless in American society. Cultural norms (and the fact that the Asian community is diverse - really a basket name for people from many countries that are as different from each other as England is to Bulgaria) also mean that there’s no Asian Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton whose going to show up and make a stink ala Imus. The squeaky wheel gets the grease in our society.</p>
<p>How is a school lacking a moral compass for wanting to have a variety of people making up its student body? This discussion, I fear, will never get anywhere.</p>
<p>sjmom wrote:
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<p>Exactly. Race or gender may be a tip factor but those who are admitted have the ability to succeed at MIT which is their number one priority in choosing candidates. </p>
<p>Percy wrote:
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<p>I don’t see holistic admissions being about race and gender. I see holistic admissions being about going beyond SATs (which seem to be the one thing you deem as the end all and be all of who should get in). I don’t see holistic admissions having to do at all with racial discrimination. I see it as looking at people as whole human beings, the sum of many factors and criteria, that makes them a strong candidate for admission. Their SATs are but one piece of information. As Mollie points out, what makes school so interesting is being with people with all different strengths, interests, perspectives, and all different backgrounds. Colleges are looking for all sorts of students. Some may be athletes, some may be computer “nerds”, some may be leaders, some may have had some unusual experiences, some may be interested in one field or another, and so forth. Lots of students have the “goods” when it comes to SATs and GPAs. Once they are in the ballpark in terms of intellect, there are lot of other characteristics and qualities that set one person apart from another. That is what holistic admissions is about. If it were just about stats, they would ask you to fill out some numbers and be done with it. They ask for activities, recs, essays, and much more. For a reason. They are selecting WHOLE people, not just their intellectual quotient. Ability matters, but so does lots else. Too many people have the ability and so other things set a candidate apart from another. Qualities, strengths, background, personal traits, activities, intended majors, interest in the school, and so forth. THAT is what I think of when I think of holistic admissions. AFTER ALL of that is considered…there is the aspect of balancing out the class to include a variety of types of people. But all these people made the cut as far as ability and other traits/strengths/interests. At that juncture, race or gender or geography might be a tip factor. But the admissions went through a holistic review for each applicant weighing lots of criteria besides SAT scores before it even got to the tip factor of race or gender. </p>
<p>The mission to have a balanced class from a variety of backgrounds and areas of strength and qualities is a mission I agree with. It makes for a much more challenging and favorable learning climate. Part of the learning that takes place in college is from the peers with whom you are studying and living.</p>
<p>Okay, I’m an Asian first generation immigrant. I’m not appalled, because I’m not surprised, but I AM kind of annoyed that you think I’m voiceless. Please don’t construct victims out of entire groups of people (that you may or may not understand) just to further your agenda.</p>
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<p>Where are you getting this? Did no one notice this statement?</p>
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<p>I agree with this. Exactly my point earlier.</p>
<p>I happen to be an interviewer for a selective college. If SATs and academic ability were all that mattered, they would not have to bother with the interviews. When I interview candidates, I never learn of their SAT scores, GPA or rank. In fact, the interview is focused on everything else (which includes academics, just not stats). This kind of information is exactly what my college seeks. They have lots of applicants who have the requisite stats. It is everything else that sets one apart from another and they want interesting students who can contribute to the university in many different ways. Personal traits, interests, goals and accomplishments matter. Score do too, but scores alone are not enough. All of this is holistic admissions and doesn’t even take into account race or gender. We are provided with a slew of questions to learn more about the applicant beyond stats. None of the stuff has to do with race/gender. It is everything else that makes it holistic.</p>
<p>I believe, Percy, that you want their mission to take the best “geniuses” off the pile of applications with nothing else taken into account. I don’t think that is the mission of these private elite colleges.</p>
<p>If the one criteria to get into college was SAT scores…I guess I would have had to encourage my kids to spend all their time studying for the tests and to forget about the countless hours they spent pursuing their interest areas and activities and so forth. Instead, they worked hard at school, pursued activities they had a passion for, and when it came time to apply to college, they documented what they had done which they would have done had they never applied to college. The one thing they did because they HAD to do it, was to take the SATs.</p>
<p>“What they would do though, is sort thru the application piles and reject all job applicants who were completely unqualified. Then they would match up the applications with the available positions and if they had two equally qualified applicants for the job and one was white and one was black they’d choose the white applicant. … MIT is doing exactly the same thing …”</p>
<p>No, MIT is NOT doing exactly the same thing. I would agree with you if MIT were sorting through applications as you describe and denying every Asian who applied. That would be blatant discrimination. Many times when MIT (and HYPS+) is deciding among students, the top scoring Asian or top scoring white male does get accepted. </p>
<p>(P.S. For Soozie, I should PM this but I’m lazy – there is a boy in teen jazz this year, and second boy who performs in several of their dances.)</p>
<p>soozievt: I tried to PM you but your in-box is full. Clean up that clutter :D</p>
<p>Sly_VT…I know about the boy in Teen Jazz this year as he is from our community and high school. It is pretty unusual to have boys in classes there, let alone in Teen Jazz. I think I know who the other boy is as well, from closer to where you live and there have been some boys who have taken hip hop there. But in all my kids’ ballet, tap and jazz classes at that studio, they have never had boys, unfortunately. But that is not the case when they have studied dance in locations out of state. </p>
<p>OldOldDad…I can’t keep up with the PMs! I MUCH prefer e mails. If you are willing to email, that would be great. My email is the same as my posting name and at aol.com.</p>
<p>So much for talking about the MIT admissions dean resigning over resume fraud! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Where are you getting this? Did no one notice this statement?</p>
<p>“• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.”</p>
<p>I misspoke - the article does not mention Asians but since Asians score higher than whites I assume my statement remains true.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html[/url]”>http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html</a></p>
<p>This is from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, a serious academic journal, not some kind of racist nut job site.</p>
<p>I know the number are hard to believe, but there they are - this is why AA by income level cannot work - the ONLY way they can do AA is to expressly take race into account.</p>
<p>Percy…with what do you attribute the success of Black students who graduate from MIT? According to you, they are less qualified. How then did they manage to succeed at MIT? Just wonderin’…</p>
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Yeah, does anybody want to hear anything about the original topic of the thread?</p>
<p>I had a quick lunch with Ben J. yesterday. I only got a few minutes with him, as they’re interviewing for several counselor positions, so he was in interviews all afternoon. This is supposed to be their off-season, and he was busier than ever.</p>
<p>^^^
Who’s checking the resumes now???</p>
<p>Soozie writing a telegram in 1927:</p>
<p>Percy…with what do you attribute the success of Christian students who graduate from MIT? According to you, they are less qualified than the Jews. How then did they manage to succeed at MIT? Just wonderin’…</p>
<p>The point for the umpteenth time is that we have no business taking into account the the race, religion, gender, etc. of a student in the selection process. I thought that we figured this out a long time ago but I guess each generation has to learn the same lesson over and over.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, back at the ranch, MIT is announcing the highest yield in its history!
<a href=“http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N25/admissions.html[/url]”>http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N25/admissions.html</a></p>
<p>Roshke, thanks for the link to that article about MIT’s yield. Good for MIT! As Schmill points out, Marilee Jones’ resignation doesn’t seem to have affected the yield and frankly, I can’t see why it should. If my kid was an applicant, it would not have deterred her one bit. I don’t think Marilee’s demise reflects on the job that MIT is doing. </p>
<p>Hopefully, this thread can get back on topic. There are plenty of threads on CC that address AA.</p>
<p>Oh, and rich…LOL…I am sure they ARE checking resumes for counselor positions now!</p>
<p>I do not know who on this thread has just sent me three very long emails full of statistics and articles and references. I wrote you back after the first one and I had ASSSUMED you were OldOldDad who said he was trying to contact me. So, when I wrote you back that is who I thought I was responding to. It would help if when you write to provide your CC member name. Your email address starts starts with “vt…”. </p>
<p>OldOldDad…I now realize you are a different person who emailed and I will try to get back to you. To the other person, please use email or PM to discuss something off the forum that might be more personally addressed privately. But please do not use email to send more facts and figures and so forth that is best to just post here. I can’t respond to what amounts to more posts basically but sent through email. The discussion right here is enough. I don’t know which poster you are.</p>
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<p>Is it also ironic that your entire diatribe that masquerades as constructive posts boils down to a single issue with Affirmative Action or, with the much simpler problem of “Negative Action” against asians. So, is it ironic that a school that has espoused very decent practices of open diversity has seen the number of what you call WASP diminishing?</p>
<p>Fwiw, Percy, it may be time to read Karabel’s book again, and maybe try to understand it a bit better!</p>
<p>Re: post #1656, how did the target class size at MIT change from March to May?</p>