Could you explain please?
I would STRONGLY disagree with this statement. It’s too broad and unqualified. MIT is NOT for everyone (nor is Cal). My son didn’t apply to either and he had the stats to be competitive. He had no interest in either. A student from his high school, who was also the Rensselaer Medalist (the school’s best math and science student), did go to MIT. I don’t know the details, but he ended up taking a year leave because he was so disillusioned with the experience. Choose the one that fits YOU.
@penguin2, MIT could be cheaper than Cal for some folks because MIT provides more substantial financial aid (to those who qualify).
It would be more likely to get substantial need based aid from MIT, but the school is twice as expensive. They are a full need met school. So for some, it’s a great deal. It would be more likely to get merit at at Cal because MIT doesn’t grant any merit aid. With that said, it is possible at Cal, but also unlikely.
I agree with @PurpleTitan. If the two schools cost the same, go with MIT (it’s just a far superior experience). But they are not in your case, so you need to figure out how much more that experience is worth to you. MIT has a more challenging environment, which may be more suitable for some students, but not everyone. Career-wise, it also offers more options (and some of which with potentially better outcomes).
@1NJParent, you made my exact point and contradicted your second sentence when you said MIT might not suit everyone. That doesn’t have to be based only on how challenging it is either. To say one is far superior, let alone better in any way, depends on what a student wants the experience to be.
As for better career options, a LinkedIn search doesn’t support that notion. The top 5 employers are essentially equivalent for CS grads of both schools. There will be different opportunities for each certainly. A Cal grad will have a better shot at LLNL or LBNL, whereas a MIT grad probably has a better shot at Lincoln Lab or Draper.
The bottom line is this, if MIT undergrad (or insert ANY other schools in here) was vastly superior their grads would be higher ups everywhere. They simply aren’t. One need look no further than the undergraduate educations of the executive board of JPL to see how egalitarian Engineering and CS are. MIT (and Caltech for that matter) have very little representation.
There is no blanket “better.” Period. It’s a myth. There’s simply fit and that is based on perspective.
@1NJParent @eyemgh Based on my preferences in my original post, which would you say is a better fit for me?
I’m now thoroughly educated (thank you all!) on why Cal is a smarter choice financially. Now I’m looking for whether MIT is a smarter choice based on the rest of the criteria I listed, and if I have to weigh price vs fit or if it’s obviously Berkeley.
@1NJParent, eh, Cal EECS is plenty challenging.
@eyemgh, I don’t understand your acronyms, but I will say that MIT has a (by far) better network at East Coast financial firms than Cal EECS. Plenty of STEM MIT grads end up in business/front office roles at those places. MIT offers more flexibility in opportunities and majors.
If you are deadset on employment at FAANG (and remain that way; plenty of teenagers don’t), that flexibility doesn’t matter so much.
@penguin2 Both are clearly fantastic choices. However, an MIT experience would be much superior for the right student, both academically and outside of academics. How much is that better experience worth to you? That’s the main question and it’s difficult for anyone else to make that determination.
@1NJParent, if you’re going to make such a bold statement, defend it. I have a MIT BS/MS family member and one of my son’s classmates who is a student (if he’s back from his leave) who would both find your contention specious. MIT is not a “superior” experience for everyone.
Who is that “right” student? If your contention is that the student has to be the right fit, then isn’t it also not only plausable, but likely that Cal could provide a superior experience? Certainly a CS student who wants to work at a West Coast tech titan like Alphabet, Facebook, Apple or Amazon would be better served by a Cal degree.
@PurpleTitan, they are all federally funded national labs. Draper and Lincoln Lab are private and both DOD funded. Draper was spun out of MIT and Lincoln is still run by MIT. Both are in the Boston area.
Lawrence Livermore National Lab (LLNL, DOD) and Lawrence Berkeley National Lab (LBNL, DOE) are both federally run national research labs. Both are in the Bay.
I absolutely agree with the East Coast network for financial jobs being vastly superior for MIT grads. In fact, schools like Dartmouth, not exactly revered for their engineering, do a great job placing engineers into finance roles.
^I based my observation on personal experience, as well as experiences from many family members, close friends and associates.
UC Berkeley: 30,800 undergraduates enrolled; 20:1 student faculty ratio
MIT: 4,600 undergraduates enrolled; 3:1 student faculty ratio
For a CS major, I would not worry about which university will provide better employment prospects after graduation. Both will teach you the skills to get started in a good CS job. Your eventual success will depend on your initiative and talents, not on which university you choose.
Instead I would focus on the quality of your undergraduate experience. Both CS programs have highly competitive admissions, so your fellow CS students will be well qualified. Both CS programs will be challenging. What about your non-CS courses? Will you be able to enroll in courses you find interesting? Do most students graduate in 4 years, or does it take 5 years to take all of the necessary courses? What do you think about MIT’s famous Institute Requirements?
Personally I would choose MIT for the quality of the undergraduate experience.
If you do not qualify for need-based financial aid at MIT you family must have more financial resources than most Americans. Talk with your parents to find out what they think about the relative costs and the merits of each university. Ultimately your choice will come down to what your family values and can afford.
@1NJParent, experience at Berkeley? That’s the problem. Almost no one has experience at at more than one undergraduate institution…almost no one. There’s no doubt that for the right person MIT is a great option. Caltech too. There’s also no doubt, that they are both niche schools, that are not great fits for at least some, probably many. It’s important for students to look beyond reputation and rankings and realize that there are schools that grind their students without a lot of tangible benefits for enduring the process. Students do not get into those schools if they aren’t high horsepower students. They must ask themselves, can I handle the pressure; is the pressure worth it. The suicide rate at MIT is almost double the the national collegiate average.
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@eyemgh I don’t have personal experience at Berkeley, but a number of my relatives and close friends do. MIT/Caltech clearly isn’t for everyone, or even most students, but I can tell you the experience at these places significantly exceeds that at one of the Ivies known by its initial here (also based on personal experience). Frankly, there’s no comparison. Yes, there’re students at these places (like elsewhere) who aren’t good fit (academically or otherwise), and they would have been better off elsewhere.
Exceeds, in volume and pace, no don’t. Superior, HIGHLY questionable. As for the Ivy engineering comparison, beyond Cornell, that’s a pretty low bar.
With this quote, you’ve made my exact point: “MIT/Caltech clearly isn’t for everyone, or even most students”.
^The experiences are not limited to any particular area, including engineering. This is NOT about comparison of engineering departments.
^^^This. We just had a thread here on CC about UC Santa Cruz TA’s, and other UC’s in sympathy, going out on a wildcat strike. MIT has more money and WAY smaller class sizes.
What do you think about cooperation/competition at these two, given that there’s a better faculty ratio at MIT?
@sushiritto, No matter how you slice it and dice it, Cal has BIG classes, the biggest one in the nation in fact, with over 1000 students in the intro to CS lecture. Will that make the MIT experience better or worse than Cal? Will it make it worth $140,000 MORE than Cal? Those answers depend on what matters to the student and their family. Caltech is well known for a pace that’s supposed to feel like drinking from a fire hose. From what I’ve read, MIT doesn’t lag that much behind in that respect. There’s a reason our son didn’t apply to either Cal or MIT (or Caltech for that matter). I’m in no way blanketly condemning ANY school. I’m pushing back on the notion that without qualification we can call any school “better” than another.
The reality is that 30% of the females and 20% of the males that go through the effort to apply and are admitted at MIT determine that some other school is better for them.