<p>And yes, 7 year olds still believe in Santa. Mine did. </p>
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<p>Right. Exactly. I’m not clear why the actual facts get ignored/left out/denied. It’s like people want to think something’s a bigger issue than it is. It feeds paranoia.</p>
<p>And of course, one child abducted is one too many. So is one child killed in a car accident, or a gun accident, or other, terrible things that happen to them far more frequently.</p>
<p>People say that about every conceivable tragedy, though. If it’s illegal to let your child out of your sight at any time until whatever age the law needs to be clear about it. We have parks attached to nearly every elementary school and every afternoon there are unsupervised kids playing until mom picks them up. Is this illegal? If so, no-one has told these parents.</p>
<p>Mine were starting to get mad about being lied to about Santa at around 7 years old. Suspicion started at 5 or 6, though.</p>
<p>Not that it matters, but 80 minutes (what the original article says) is more than “an hour.” What bothers me more than the danger of abduction or injury (still a concern, as unlikely as those may be), is the NERVE/rudeness of parents who think they can use store personnel as free babysitters while they shop. That in itself shows a need for parenting classes. I have sympathy for parents who might accidentally leave a kid in a car or home alone. No sympathy for this mom. Go ahead and arrest her. Handcuffs? Sure. Why not? I would never let my kids out of my sight in a store. Sure, I’m afraid of abduction, but I also want to make sure that my kids are behaving, not touching things or disturbing other customers or staff. (RANT WARNING: I have 7 kids, some of whom are still young. I feel like a grouchy old grandma when I observe what is, imo, a lack of parenting skills among a high percentage of the “younger generation” of parents. I frequently see a complete unwillingness to discipline kids or say “no” to anything–along with the clueless absolute freedom these parents feel to impose their kids’ uncivilized behavior on strangers in public places. Rant over. Thanks for listening 
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<p>And then you have to wonder: if a woman can just walk away from her kid and leave the kid in a store while she shops in a different one (or two, or three) what else does she do with the kid? Is the kid fed properly? Put to bed at a decent hour? Exposed to what other dangers? How neglectful is she?</p>
<p>Wow, that’s a lot of leaping. It’s also entirely possible that her well-cared for kid was tired and didn’t want to be dragged around the mall on mommy errands so she let him play Lego’s for just over an hour. I agree it was a dumb plan. My kids played outside all the time and one day a new neighbor dumped her kid in my yard and said he wanted to play, too. She was pretty clueless but I don’t think she should have been arrested. Also, the mom who left her kid in the park for five hours was defended fiercely on this board so I don’t get the hostility toward this one.</p>
<p>Agree and agree, Flossy!</p>
<p>WOW 
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<p>yeah, it’s nice to find common ground. :)</p>
<p>The rules in the community where my children went to school:
Children age 7 and younger can’t be left alone for any period of time.
Children age 8– 9 can’t be left alone for more than 2 hours.
Children age 10– 13 can’t be left alone for more than 12 hours.<br>
Children age 14– 17 can’t be left unsupervised for more than 24 hours.
They sent us this information every year along with a note reminding us that the teachers are mandatory reporters.<br>
They didn’t allow kids to play on the playground after school unattended. They made them wait inside the school until the parents arrived. They did offer child care (for a fee) for families that might need it.
When our neighbor kids were 10 (and older) they were left alone while their parents were working. They spent a great deal of time at my house. Most of the time I didn’t mind…</p>
<p>I wouldnt leave my kid in a toy store, but I have left them in one area of a book store while I was in another.
If it had been a large store, rather than a shopping mall, would she still have been arrested and handcuffed?
I think if they are going to arrest people, they should make it illegal to allow your kid to be on their own, say under 10, instead of it being up to the guardians and police officers judgement.</p>
<p>Of course some on the boards rode public transit in NyC to school when they were that age, and kids in my neighborhood walk if they are not eligible for transportation; 1 & 1/4 miles for elementary students, 2 miles for middle school & 2&1/2 miles for high school.
It is measured as the crow flies, so the route may actually be farther.</p>
<p>If there were actually a law to the effect that a kid couldn’t be left unattended by an adult under any circumstances under, say, the age of 8, then we’d have police arresting parents for letting seven year olds walk three houses down the street to play with a neighbor, which would be far more of an overreaction than this was.</p>
<p>I don’t like nanny state policies, and I think that arrests and CPS seem to be excessive in these cases. On the other hand, I don’t think any of the moms in these recent cases have exercised great judgment, and these arrests actually do show some evidence of police discretion. In the Debra Harrel case, I have a feeling if the nine year old had been left in the park for two hours now and then rather than all day for several days running, the outcome would have been different. In this case, I don’t think mom would have been arrested if she had been in the clothing department and left her kid in the toy section for fifteen minutes, even though that might not be the best parenting decision of the year either. Again, in both cases an actual arrest/threat of losing the child is overkill, but the respective reactions, IMO, don’t exactly prove that the police have lost all common sense (there are plenty of other things to prove that, unfortunately). </p>
<p>I also agree that a custodial arrest in this case is way over the top. Leaving a 7 year old unattended for 80 minutes is clearly inappropriate – but what about leaving an 8 year old for 15 minutes while the parent goes to the restroom to change the diaper of a younger sibling? Where do the lines get drawn? </p>
<p>But I’d also point out that there is one piece of the story that is missing from all of these over-the-top arrest stories: we think know how the parent responded to the police when they arrived. There is only one “right” way for the parent to act under those circumstances: respectful and apologetic. (“I’m so sorry, I lost track of time, it will never happen again.”) Some people think they can debate or argue with cops. Very often these things escalate because the people who are arrested did and said things that got the cops really ticked off at them. </p>
<p>Without that piece of the puzzle it’s hard to really know what has gone into the police decisions made in individual cases.</p>
<p>Nice apologia, Calmom–sort of not what I’d expect from you. Should (I’m not asking “will?”) but should lives turn on that demeanor?</p>
<p>Well, when a policeman accosted me and threatened to arrest me for leaving my extremely sensible and intelligent 9-yr-old alone in the locked, non-hot car reading a book for about 15-20 minutes in a highly traveled parking lot I wasn’t apologetic in the least. I wondered what the hell his problem was. He eventually had to admit that a) it was discretionary, and b) my kid remained calm, even when he (the cop) set off the car alarm, so c) It appeared that my judgement was sound.</p>
<p>Would I have done what this woman did? No, never. But handcuffing her–presumably in front of her child–seems like a gross over-reaction.</p>
<p>Cosmicfish said “This is nothing like a child alone at home.”</p>
<p>It seems that some Police Departments disagree with you and they do not distinguish the situations. From time to time there are news reports of the cops arresting a parent for leaving a toddler (not an infant, which we all agree is idiocy) at home alone, at least in New York.</p>
<p>I don’t think I could trust my kids, at least my eldest, to stay put anywhere for 10 minutes much less an hour at that age. I’m amazed that the parent was so cavalier in thinking everything would be ok. I’ve taught 7 year olds, and I don’t remember knowing any that I’d feel comfortable leaving alone in a public place. They’re just too small and vulnerable, no matter how smart or obedient they are. Honestly, I think kids are safer in a locked car than in a mall alone.
On the other hand, I think that handcuffing and arresting were overkill. If the law allowed her to just be cited, fined and warned, I think that would have made more sense. But I don’t know her local laws. Maybe the police had no choice.</p>
<p>@garland, I’m just focusing on reality, not “shoulds”. Cops are human and very fallible, and it is rather easy for a person with a hostile attitude to talk themselves into getting arrested, whereas the balance can shift the other way if the cop doesn’t feel disrespected. It is even more complex in these cases involving kids, because the cop really does have to make a judgment call involving safety of the child, based in part on the cop’s perception of whether the same conduct that resulted in the police call is likely to be repeated. </p>
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A toddler is also not a seven year old. The question of whether or not it constitutes neglect / endangerment depends on a lot of different factors. The fact that the child is at home leans the case away from neglect, but if the child is still a toddler then that leans it back towards.</p>
<p>It ticks me to no end that parents drop their young children off in toy departments. I realize that Lego probably has some “hands on” displays that children can play with. How many times have you parents picked up a toy to purchase and found the package torn. pried, missing contents? I attribute this phenomenon to unattended children and it costs the stores money.</p>
<p>I obviously was traumatized at about age ten when a great aunt gave me a game I dearly wanted. It had been opened and crucial pieces were missing. The poor lady probably didn’t see well enough to notice. </p>