<p>“There are all sorts of kids all over CC today who simply cannot believe they did not get into the top schools”</p>
<p>In their defense, part of this is just about being 17. The thread about magical thinking on the part of underachievers is relevant for the great students, too. Book smarts and emotional maturity each grow at their own rate. Sometimes it takes first-hand experience before a student can grasp a lesson, if she’s heard it 500 times.</p>
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<p>Of the 30,000 or so hs in the US, how many high schools do you REALLY think send “dozens of apps” or even a handful of apps to Harvard? Once you’ve taken out the nation’s elite boarding schools, elite public day schools, academic magnets and affluent suburban high schools, I would hazard a guess that there aren’t even 1,000 hs sending multiple applications to Harvard. Let’s not confuse “my affluent upper middle class area” with the nation!</p>
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<p>You don’t have to defend them to me, at all.</p>
<p>I honestly think there are guidance counselors at high schools who don’t understand the admission situation at this point in time. these kids are the best students they’ve ever met. Top of the class, no idea what else is out there, not really.</p>
<p>But, it’s tough that guidance counselors and parents can’t even advise them well, since any school in the top tier can’t be considered a match for anyone. I’m glad my next one thinks a state school is about the only football game in town. 
less heartbreak.</p>
<p>You’re right that sometimes they aren’t getting reality-based advice from anyone. That’s another group, on top of the ones who get good guidance but aren’t ready to hear it.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s often the adults who are unrealistic about admissions chances–in part, because many of them remember how it used to be.</p>
<p>There are so many high schools in the US alone, and the top kids at each of these school would naturally want to give H a go. Nothing wrong with that, as long they understand the odds and how the admissions pool is. Also anyone applying to college should find at least one, preferably a few schools that will fit their needs, that they can like and that they will be able to afford. Once that is covered, go to town with the other choices.</p>
<p>I am seeing a lot moreuniversity of pittsburgh health services of the attitude from parents that they will not pay private school prices for anything other than the most highly rated and name familiar schools. It’s either that or the state schools is what I am hearing. My friend’s husband would not pay for Oberlin, though they could have afforded it. Had the student gotten into GT, Duke, Columbia or Harvard, that would have been a whole other story.</p>
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<p>No, not “naturally.” There are wide swathes of the country where the top kids would pretty much automatically choose their state’s flagship, and no one would think twice or think that the kid “should have” reached for more or was settling for something terrible. Please stop confusing what it’s like in Boston, Philadelphia, Balto, Wash DC, San Fran or LA with “everywhere.”</p>
<p>cpt: What’s wrong with this attitude:
“attitude from parents that they will not pay private school prices for anything other than the most highly rated and name familiar schools.” Its a HUGE investment, why would you look down on a parent refusing to pay the same amount for a top private as for little known, or lesser ranked, private school? Would you expect to pay the same price for an Audi/Lexus as you do for a Honda? I’ve never understood why you are expected to pay same tuition – or sometimes higher tuition - for a much lesser ranked, lesser known private school. Sure everyone considering a private has their own cutoff on what private schools would be “worth the tuition” but its their money they can make whatever decision suits them.</p>
<p>I don’t think Cpt. is making a value judgement, just an observation of how things have changed since she sent her first to college.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl is absolutely spot on for my neck of the woods. The kids from my S’s HS rarely apply to any elite private schools as the best students virtually all set their sites on UT-Austin or TX A&M, though once in a while one will go to a military academy. My S hopes to apply to a few privates in a couple of years, but he is going to keep it secret from his friends. They would find it somewhat strange and disturbingly elitist.</p>
<p>Kids from neck of the woods are really savvy. They applied to a lot of different colleges, not just state’s flagship. Counselors seem to be pushing for CSU, CC, and UCs but checking the naviance from our local high schools, our kids seem to be aware of a lot of schools.</p>
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<p>Depends where they draw the line, doesn’t it? It’s one thing to say I’ll pay for Yale but not SMU. Those are real, appreciable differences. It’s another thing to say I’ll pay for Yale but not Vanderbilt or Pomona. The latter is what’s called slicing the bologna.</p>
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<p>I have no problem judging that as stupid. Oberlin is a fine, fine school. Anyone who is anyone knows that.</p>
<p>Sorry Pizzagirl, don’t agree. There are many students for whom the margin of excellence at a place like Oberlin will be minimal compared to something cheaper and closer to home. And many students for whom the social experience would be sub-par.</p>
<p>I don’t think someone’s refusal to pay for Oberlin is stupid, and it doesn’t make that person ignorant to decide that they’ll pay for one college but not another. And I know lots of people who would pay for Yale and not Vanderbilt- and it has nothing to do with the money per se, but more the vibe and ethos at Vanderbilt (a fine institution academically without question.) But I know lots of kids who would be happier- and not be as marginalized racially or ethnically-- at Hunter or CUNY if they were denied (or didn’t get enough aid) to attend Yale.</p>
<p>You’re always calling folks on their regional biases. And we usually agree. But not this time.</p>
<p>I am not making a judgement. Just an observation. IMO, it depends. In the case of my friend’s daughter, that they have paid for private school for her all the way through high school, schools that actually like the private LACS, and that they are well to do, have a lot of extras like a second home, some antique cars, great vacations, etc, it seems to me that their daughter’s choice of college was not far fetched. </p>
<p>Also, in some cases, a small private may be a worthwhile way to go, over a state school even if it lesser known. Clearly, the finances have to work out. But for me, education and choices of school rank high up there in where to spend one’s money. I wish, wish wish, that I could just tell my kids to go where ever they pleased regardless of cost. But that is a personal issue, and there are many that would say that we could well afford to do so. It’s really a family decision.</p>
<p>I have seen in both private schools where my kids attended, far more state U apps, including SUNYs. And more kids listed as going to them over the last 10 years. Ironically, my one son’s high school is showing more private schools, more selective ones in the mix. I’ll have to drop by and see if this is just something I’m noticing or if it is a statistical fact. For the other two school, what I am saying is borne by the stats as well. More kids going to state vs private with cost being an issue and the name of the private becoming more of an important point. I did ask the counselors and they vigorously agreed. Just two school, of course. </p>
<p>My friend’s daughter did not enjoy her years at the large pubic school she did attend. She commuted since she was too late for dorms by the time the Oberlin situation was resolved. Then when she got an off campus apartment, the social scene was not one that she enjoyed. THough it was her state school, most of her peers went private. She graduated in 3 years and went on to law school, but college is not a time that she enjoyed at all. She loved her smaller private high school and her friends are still from there.</p>
<p>My son is having problems with socially at a big public too, and I think a smaller private would have been a better choice for him.</p>
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<p>No confusion here.</p>
<p>But better yet let’s not make unsubstantiated claims that are easily refuted. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>The exact quote was:</p>
<p>“People don’t just “throw out” applications…” which is just plain incorrect, and I used one high school experience to ‘prove it’. (And it only takes one data to disprove the claim. Not to mention the fact that there are hundreds if not thousands of (upper) middle class communities and high schools from which the 'throwing" occurs.) </p>
<p>“People” do all kinds of stupid things, including throwing out applications. :D</p>
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I have no problem saying that this attitude is probably stupid. The implication from the wording above is that this dad didn’t think Oberlin was good enough to justify paying the private tuition, even though he could have afforded it. If that’s his reasoning, I think it’s pretty stupid. It’s possible that he had some better reason, but I think it’s dumb to be willing to pay for Georgetown, but not Oberlin.</p>
<p>As and when the applicant pool starts increasing, the percentage of people accepted will obviously go down. More and more people are trying for the Ivies and it obviously means they’re all putting in the effort. Why shouldn’t everyone else?</p>
<p>“There are so many high schools in the US alone, and the top kids at each of these school would naturally want to give H a go.”</p>
<p>More likely BYU, (and, occasionally, Calvin College), in areas near where I live.</p>
<p>Kids know they will get rejected but they just apply for the fun of it. Nothing is a mistery. Why do millions of people know that they will lose money when gambling in Las Vegas but they still do it and do it again, again, and again,…?</p>