He also mentions that there’s no evidence that the Nile crocodiles in Florida are reproducing. Let’s hope that is correct!!!
I’ve been to that resort with a 3-year-old. The water in the lagoon is nasty. I’d never think of putting a foot in or letting a kid do it…but that’s because of the filth, not because I’d think of the child being grabbed by a predator. I’d be picturing, you know, leeches and diarrhea. Or even just carcinogenic lawn care runoff.
I’m pretty shocked Disney didn’t have exterminators checking the place out all the time. I mean, the gorilla cage was SUPPOSED to contain a gorilla. There aren’t supposed to be real child-eating monsters at the Grand Floridian. And while the risk is probably higher when you’re disturbing the water, a gator could grab a kid standing at the edge as easily as it could grab a wader. No human being can get anything out of a gator’s jaws.
If I were Disney’s lawyers, I’d be falling over myself to give this family millions. From a business POV, it doesn’t matter if the parents were negligent. This is a horror movie come to life at the flagship resort. They can’t let it stay in the news.
I’ve stayed at the Grand Floridian, too - and like Hanna, I was so disgusted with the appearance of that water that I wouldn’t go near it. Parasites, insects, snakes, alligators, amoebiasis, West Nile virus, soon-to-be-diagnosed Zika - there’s lots hiding in that water. And yes, I’m one of those rubes from the Midwest who doesn’t routinely encounter alligators but who is well aware that every environment contains some kind of danger, and in Florida that danger can kill you.
Not blaming anyone, and I do grieve for the parents. What a terrible, terrible thing. But may of us outside of Florida ARE aware of its dangers. And I know I rank high on the obsessive-hypochondriac-worrier scale, which is why I never let my kid go into standing water like the Grand Floridian lagoon. (To me, that’s scarier than the ocean with its sharks, jellyfish, and sting rays.) And yes, I know I sound like the ultimate no-fun parent.
Don’t get me started on this “happiest place on earth” thing, either. Bah humbug!
I just want to say to all of you who think the lagoon should be fenced (and by the way there is a lot of water areas at Disney), alligators can climb fences. This is a tragic situation. Sometimes no one is to blame.
If a fence were installed several yards from the edge of the lagoon the creatures may be able to climb it but at least you’d see them coming. The public should have a reasonable expectation of safety when visiting tourist spots. There’s a walkway in NYS that soars several hundred feet over the Hudson River. The state didn’t install a knee wall and say, “no climbing” and hope for the best; they put up fences that are several feet higher than a grown man and plexiglass walls that can’t be climbed.
A “no swimming” sign doesn’t accurately reflect the dangers present in that park, and no measures were taken to make it difficult for people who weren’t aware of the dangers to get to the water. I don’t think the parents were behaving in a manner that would lead a reasonable person to expect the consequences that followed. What are the natural consequences of wading in dirty water? You may expect to get reprimanded by staff, asked to leave the park, fall in and get soaked, or get sick if you’re unlucky enough to ingest the water, but you shouldn’t have to expect to get eaten.
I’ve been to FL and I’ve seen the gators move. I don’t think the dad could’ve been that far away if he was able to make it to the gator in time to fight for his child’s life. Were they wading in water they probably shouldn’t have been? Yes, but only because it’s apparently dirty and gross. Does “no swimming” also mean “no wading”? I don’t think so. But the mistakes this family may have made should not have had the possibility of resulting in the event that occurred. Disney knew there was a danger and didn’t protect the youngest of our public. To me, that’s the only point that matters. I hope they have sense enough to build a proper barrier.
This was interesting…
What a smart post, @austinmshauri. It seems to me that individual vacationers may or may not know that dangerous wildlife lives in the WDW environs, but Disney certainly knows it. I agree, too, that “No Swimming” doesn’t mean “Stay out of/Completely away from the Water.” If that’s what Disney wants, it has to say that clearly.
When my children were small and we stayed at this hotel, we spent an afternoon on this beach building sand castles. This was clearly permitted and even encouraged. We bought the pails and buckets at the gift shop. The “No Swimming” signs appeared, to us, to permit approaching the water and getting our feet wet to fetch water back to our spot on the beach. None of the Disney personnel in the area admonished us to completely avoid all contact with the water. It that’s the expectation, that’s what the signs need to say.
You can water ski in there but not swim at the shoreline??? Looks like the boat rentals will discontinue as well…who wants to fall over into alligator infested water?
We stayed at the Grand Floridian with a 5-year-old, 4-year-old, and 2-year-old. As my daughter points out, I would not have let them play in the Seven Seas Lagoon at night - not even in a foot of water - and definitely not 20-30 feet from my 2-year-old if I had done so. The no-swimming signs and the look to the lagoon are enough of a red flag for me. Like @scout59, I’m on the overly cautious, worrier side of the scale. That said - my worries would never have strayed as far as an alligator rising from the depths and grabbing my child.
The above is not a criticism of the parents. I can’t even imagine the depths of grief and the images now seared into their consciousness. I’m not sure Disney millions would be able to cover the counseling I’d need.
In all fairness, I doubt Disney considered anything like this happening either: look at how long the parks have been open and how many visitors pass through with nary an incident. As @Onward points out: “This is a tragic situation. Sometimes no one is to blame.”
*I saw a water moccasin in the retention pond on my morning walk - the third time in a couple weeks. All the rain and flooding in the area probably relocated them. I need to remember to watch where I step, as sometimes they like to sun themselves. And, yes, sometimes I see children playing at the water’s edge. And, no, the retention pond will not be cleared of snakes - probably can not - despite that fact.
Are barriers the only way to add safety? Is it possible to have the gator guy come around every day and check for new arrivals? Parks do morning safety checks of the roller coasters every day.
Quote from the ny times:
“The resort, which has closed its beaches for the time being, has a wildlife management team that monitors alligators and other animals and regularly removes any that appear to be troublesome, according to Nick Wiley, executive director of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. He said that alligator attacks were “not common at all” but that alligators were capable of moving across land and underwater so fencing them off was not a feasible option.”
Clearly I’m no wildlife expert, but would there be a way to put a barrier up in the area where the stream comes into the lake? The fact that they remove them on a regular basis tells me they know there are alligators in there and therefore were negligent in not informing the guests. If I could rent a boat and water ski in there I wouldn’t think I couldn’t let my kids put their feet in the water. It just wouldn’t occur to me the problem with the water was alligators.
Even Disney cannot guard against every potential danger. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can. I’m all for prevention but that requires cautious behavior on BOTH sides.
I grew up water skiing in bodies of water that contained alligators and water moccasins. We were always careful to avoid the shores, where the real danger existed. I think it must be like sharks grabbing surfers. In both cases, I think they only do it by accident. They don’t really want humans.
However, in my youth, alligators had been hunted to very low numbers and were put on the endangered species list. They have come back in such force, they were removed from the list several decades ago. There is a real limit to how many alligators we need. They should be exterminated in heavily populated areas.
I would have been worried about what was in that water, but that is because of my life experiences. If I was from Nebraska, I doubt it would ever have occurred to me something might grab my child.
If Disney had ever removed an alligator from that body of water (and it seems to me based on what I have read that they had) then there needed to be warning signs. And I agree with those saying they should be exterminating the alligators in that area. They have killed five. Goodness knows how many are in there. They shouldn’t be breeding there.
I am so very sorry for these parents. Such a tragedy.
" regularly removes any that appear to be troublesome"…
How do they decide which ones are troublesome? I think they ought to remove any that they see.
The Hyatt hotel just down the street from this hotel (which has a similar lagoon) has a sign saying “Danger Alligators”. (Heard on the radio so no link). I know that all the ponds on Kiawah Island, SC have signs saying “Danger Alligators” with a picture for those who don’t read English. Why Disney didn’t put up a Danger Alligators sign is a mystery. One photo of the sign at the nearby Hyatt and Disney loses any civil case that is brought.
I do not agree with exterminating alligators from ponds near human habitations. First of all, they will just move back in. Second, they are fascinating creatures that wildlife lovers like me like to observe. Third, they are the keystone species that keeps the numbers of other creatures in check and keep the ponds and lagoons in balance.
Swimming should be done in a pool, Disney should not have created a beach near an alligator pond which only gives the impression that it is a safe play area.
@MichiganGeorgia I bet it’s based on size. Gators are skiddish and aware of their size and typically only go after sources smaller than they are. Which in most cases means small children and dogs.
TatinG: I want you to be able to take a swamp tour and see some gators. I want wildlife conservation areas that preserve as close to a natural eco system as possible. I do not want alligators breeding in inhabited areas and walking around neighborhoods. That is too many gators. Sure it is a constant battle, but it is a necessary one. imho.
eta: I feel pretty much the same way about coyotes and wolves. We have some gorgeous hybrids living in our woods. I very much enjoy watching from my upstairs porch as they come out at dusk. However, when I have a grandchild old enough to go in the woods, I’m going to be rethinking that.
They are in our woods because everyone else around hunts them. They kill chickens, cattle, etc. Probably they wouldn’t touch a small child. But still…
I am going to be protecting the grandchild when the time comes. And the grandchildren get to roam the woods.
Endangered species act resulted in much larger gators than ever before and overpopulation of them. Their life is better protected now than humans’, so the safe thing to do is to ban people from living in Florida and just leave it to gators.
I live in an area with lots of coyotes and rattlesnakes. I just watch out for them and give them a wide berth if I see them. A housing development near Lancaster, Ca tried to eliminate rattlesnakes some decades back. They had a big rattlesnake roundup. Over the next few years they were inundated with rodents. Rodents carry disease like hanta virus.
Many more injuries, bitings, maulings and deaths are caused by dogs.
“Even Disney cannot guard against every potential danger. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can. I’m all for prevention but that requires cautious behavior on BOTH sides.”
I agree with this 1000%. Based on what I am learning about the lagoon I would keep away from the shorelines and would not put my foot into that water.
As visitors to any new area we need to be aware of our surroundings. We can not just go blindly to places or claim ignorance. We need to be alert and take it upon our self to take the necessary precautions and be aware of the risks associated with our behaviors while on vacation. The tourist areas take precautions to protect their visitors but we have to respect rules of the places we visit. Even after taking precautions accidents can happen but we have to take it on ourselves to protect our families.
As a visitor I would not think to be going to the shoreline of a lagoon at dark to wade in the water. The water is dirty to say the least. I wouldn’t allow my kids to go in the water in the dark. Not at all. The resort had areas for the guests to swim and play and I would have stuck to those areas.
That whole resort is surrounded by water and I would consider a lagoon as not safe. The resort has a vacation feel to it and I can understand a visitor letting their guard down thinking this shorelines looks like a safe sandy beach area.
I think when people checkin to this resort the visitors need to be educated about rules to keep safe.
I have read online of visitors feeding the alligators when resort employees have told them many times not to do so.
I just heard on the news that there is a gofundme page for the family and it has already raised $15,000. No amount of money will bring this child back. If nothing else I hope some lessons have come out of it so the resort and guests can take more precautions to have a safe and enjoyable vacation.
I don’t understand the reasoning behind it. Maybe someone here would have more information about it.