<p>@Thumper1 You don’t know anything about me. You don’t know anything about my intentions or motivations but I started this thread as a way to warn people about the fact that many majors will most likely give you a negative ROI , if this is going to turn into a personal attack, I really don’t care, it is your kids futures, not mine</p>
<p>All the information I posted here is based on projections, real data and hours of labor market research I did at my last position. I am not going to be answering any more posts. Good luck to everyone!</p>
<p>Bschoolwiz…i am not attaching you. What I am saying is that I value the contributions those majoring in the humanities and arts contribute to our lives. For some, their return on investment is the pleasure they have everyday when working. They can pay their bills, and are happy door what they are doing.</p>
<p>Some folks don’t spend their lives chasing the top dollar jobs…because those fields of study hold no interest for them. </p>
<p>My kids are college grads…my ROI is that they are well educated young adults with a broad perspective. Neither works in any of the fields you mention. Both are happy doing what they are doing. That matters more to me than the balance in their bank accounts. </p>
<p>Of course if everybody goes into those few narrowly-defined fields, there will be a glut of graduates in those occupations, too. You can’t foretell what the job market will be in 25 years, even with best projective techniques. Too many variables—social, economic, technological. Suggesting an overly-narrow focus on specific occupations based on current data is probably the worst advice one could give to a 17-year-old high school senior right now.</p>
<p>I’m doing fine with my social science degrees…despite dismal job prospect data even 20 years ago. A college degree is just the first step on the career path. </p>
<p>Hmmm…no one in my family seems the least bit concerned with “top dollar” job prospects. We have degrees in: English, Computer Studies, Political Science, Economics, International Finance, Theology (Divinity), Musical Theater, History, and (soon) Voice Performance. And everyone seems to be doing quite well - happy, healthy, pursuing their passions and making a living. Why would I consider telling my kid to pursue a major that they would hate and would have no aptitude for? </p>
<p>I tell my kids, “Your purpose in life is to discover the gifts that God gave you and use those gifts for the glory of God.” All happiness will flow from that, IMO. </p>
<p>I understand that the OP and I have very different ideas about meaning/purpose of life, and that’s fine. You pursue your path and let everyone else pursue theirs, OK?</p>
<p>When I graduated from college in 1983 with a BFA and teaching license Massachusetts had just passed proposition 2 1/2 which devastated the public schools. My fellow graduates took off for other fields, giving up on the teaching profession. I stuck it out and substitute taught for a year. Got a job the next year and have never looked back. I teach art because I know that it a valuable part of a well rounded education. I don’t teach kids to draw and paint, I teach kids to think and problem solve and analyze and create. That is higher order thinking. You need that to do engineering.
Both of my children are very balanced with good skills in the sciences and math and good skills in creative fields. One of them is an artist and one is going to be a nurse practitioner. I value both of their choices equally because they chose what THEY are passionate about. It is likely that my younger D will make a better income than her sister but not impossible that it will be the opposite. Regardless, it doesn’t matter because neither of them could have or would have chosen the other’s path.<br>
Going to college, IMO, is about more than becoming career ready. As Thumper said, it broadens your world, exposes you to new ideas and ways of looking at the world.
I know many, many adults who are miserable in their work. Many of them went into fields that were “practical” and encouraged by their parents They were told to make their art or music or writing their hobby. I advised my artist daughter to do the opposite. I told her that if she didn’t study art now when she had the opportunity, she would not be likely to do it later. She is glad she got a BFA. So am I. She is happily employed in her field at a large company and freelances on the side. </p>
<p>I’d take these discussions more seriously if the world weren’t filled with people complaining about those who earn more money than they do. Following your passion is terrific, and certainly the way to go if you can figure out what it is that gives your life meaning and makes you feel good about yourself. But so often it seems that the people who followed their passion aren’t so happy about where it led them. In that case, I think some earlier reflection would have been useful.</p>
<p>In any case, if you’re an able person, you can always go to professional or graduate school and tweak your original decisions a little.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4, that is not true, he took a few courses in calligraphy, not major or study calligraphy. His dad taught him to build a lot of things in his garage, if you read his bio book.</p>
<p>While I don’t agree with this thread, D1 studied Comp Lit in college, some kids on her freshman dorm was snickering or laughing at her thinking it was the most useless major. Guess what, she now makes more per hour than her 2 engineering and math friends. She still has not reached her potential yet, double booking from the moth before, while her engineering friends seem to plateau.
However, for kids who don’t know what they want to study, I would nudge them something employable, considering everything else is equal, until they found their true calling.</p>
<p>The thing that resonated most with Zuckeberg was the classics… </p>
<p>But this is a pointless, no-win discussion. There are those who believe college is only for getting enough skills to land a well paying job. There are those who believe that college is all about enlightement and opening your mind. And there is the vast, overwhelming majority of us whose opinion about the role of higher education that’s somewhere in the middle. All of us can cite anecdotes and data, and the discussion will just go on and on and on. </p>
<p>How did my wife and I stumble into the 1% with our Comp Lit and Psychology/American Studies majors? How is my kid the 2009 English major able to support herself very well since graduation and save enough to think about buying an apartment?</p>
<p>How did someone who gives himself a name like “bschoolwiz” make the rookie mistake that averages are destiny? Or that a small field with high demand will continue to support high compensation if all of a sudden there is a glut of supply?</p>
<p>What advice would you give to a student who has no interest or ability in the list of fields you suggested?
It seems brutal to be restricted to only study in a field that you don’t enjoy learning about. How would you motivate that student, especially when that student sees others who studied liberal arts (or any major not on your list) and are happily employed and enjoying life. </p>
<p>I don’t recall anyone on this thread complaining about the salary of humanities majors except for the OP. And even if artists, poets, singers and song writers DO complain about their wages. So what? If the engineers were making on average less than the artists, they would be complaining too. My experience is that those complaints are more about the sentiment that the OP expresses than they are about actual income. We artists do get tired of being undervalued, trivialized and marginalized. The low compensation for our work (on average) is just evidence of society’s priorities. Nobody likes to feel that they matter less, even if they are happy with their choices and would have made the same choices again and again. Nobody likes to feel that their contributions are not valued as much as another’s.</p>
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<p>Massmomm, this happened to a friend of mine. She is in the tech industry and had one child. When the child was three it was apparent that the only thing the child wanted to do was paint and draw. One night we out to dinner with my friend and her husband and my friend made a comment about how she hoped that her D would outgrow this art phase because she wanted her to grow up and make money. I was offended and amused at the same time (think she had momentary amnesia and wasn’t thinking about my profession?!)</p>
<p>Well, sure enough her D did not outgrow it. She went on to become a gifted artist, won many awards and went to college for Fine Art. She graduated last year and has started her own business. </p>
<p>I will add that her parents are very proud of her :)</p>
<p>I spoke to multiple people in the corporate world and academics/research last year when my kid was considering business. The unanimous opinion was that no one should study business at the undergrad level – they all believed that a LA degree provided more critical thinking and holistic view than business. These are people from Mckinsey, Stern, P&G etc. </p>
<p>My D2 is multitalented and always was a good student but decided to go to an art college. I can’t tell you how many people look appalled when hearing this. She just chose her first “real” job in her field and is working part-time now until she graduates in a couple of weeks when she’ll become full-time. </p>
<p>It just is one of those “nod and smile” interactions you have with other people. Only now the shoe is on the other foot! If everyone followed the OP’s path, we’d have too many engineers and business people and most of them would be out of work.</p>
<p>Well if your vision of college is essentially white-collar trade school for which you take out loans, then the OP has a point. However, the loaded term “useless” can be applied to all kinds of pursuits that make life worth living. </p>
<p>ROI over the long run is tricky to determine. What if you major in a “hot” trendy field that disappears in 10 years? Will your education still have any value of any kind? Classics majors never need to worry about whether reading Virgil has any value.</p>
I can sort of agree with this. But what about folks who plan on being doctors, lawyers, consultants, work on wall street, or go to b-school … these are white color career paths and do not require STEM backgrounds. In addition, what about folks who want be teachers or professors? It seems to me by the time all the exceptions are added up the original premise doesn’t hold up very well. </p>
<p>PS - not sure how much weight my argument should hold for anyone however I do have two fancy STEM degrees from fancy smancy STEM factories … so I’d think that would count to the OP.</p>
<p>Well I have an engineering degree, because I was steered that way when I didn’t know what to major in. I worked for 5 years and HATED it, so I quit to be a SAHM and never went back. So in terms if making money, you could say my engineering degree was worthless, although I never consider education that way.</p>
