With respect to the above comment suggesting that “large universities which dominate the rankings” suffer from poor teaching quality compared to small LACs is incorrect in our experience. At both large highly ranked universities our son attended, the teaching was outstanding & this from one who graduated from one of the most elite prep boarding schools in the country.
Both at Harvard & at Northwestern our child was given substantial amounts of one-on-one time with his professors whenever requested. And the classes were alive, vibrant, & well taught–although sometimes intimidating due to the sheer brilliance & energy displayed in conversations in the classroom.
Also true with respect to Princeton & Chicago from what his friends shared. Yale kids seem ecstatic about their classroom experiences.
May be true at financially struggling universities (possibly Univ. of California system–I don’t know though–just guessing), but not at any of the universities with which my son & his classmates attended. ( However, I do know that many Georgia Tech students have complained about some foreign professors who speak English poorly.)
I called the President’s office twice at Northwestern over the course of four years & , even though I did not speak with the university president, the matters were handled either that day or the next. And, no, we are nobody special in any respect that one may think, but we were treated that way both by Harvard & Northwestern.
I now recall that when our son applied to law schools, he was required to secure two recommendations from professors. A Northwestern University law professor who headed a wrongful convictions clinic at which my son worked wrote such an insightful recommendation that it opened our eyes about our only child. My wife still cries when reading it.
His Harvard professors offered to write recommendations for Yale as they thought that he would thrive in one of Yale’s departments. They spent a significant amount of time with our son. And their teaching was both excellent & demanding.
@RustyTrowel I don’t think most hs students are in a position to accurately assess teaching quality of college profs.
I think many parents assume school’s stated COA is a hard cap. Although YMMV, when talking with other parents while S was in college, it seemed to be a common groan from most that costs/expenses each year were above the COA. 10% above the COA seemed to be a number thrown around.
The history of a college in general, and the history of its exclusionary practices in particular. Shouldn’t some colleges be considered more favorably, even today, for their historical receptivity to differences, while perhaps others should be viewed with at least some skepticism for their past practices of active discrimination?
Wouldn’t it be neat if there were a college ranking based on teaching quality? My how the college search process would be different. We would turn the discussion toward questions like: “At which college will the tenured faculty invest a substantial amount of their time and resources in improving the writing skills of the undergraduate students?” We would get answers like: Carleton College. Now, I didn’t go to Carleton, but just look at what the “writing portfolio” requirements are for graduation: (link: https://apps.carleton.edu/campus/writingprogram/portfolio/ ). Show me another school where the faculty reads and grades the student writing portfolios over the summer. It’s reasonable to ask why other schools aren’t doing the same. Oh, wait; I know the answer. And its not absence of resources; not among the top schools. It is because the people who run the largest and wealthiest unis do not really want to invest their substantial resources in something so mundane as improving undergraduate student writing skills. Look no farther than Duke University where they recently spent $100 million dollars making the football stadium into a showpiece (link: https://today.duke.edu/2016/08/wallacewaderenovations ) while at the same time graduate English students are teaching freshman comp.
small schools, especially LACs, are about the undergraduate experience (small classes, professor led - not TA - , residential meaning most kids live on campus, community feel, traditions where the whole campus comes together). Large state schools (and some private) are really about research and the graduate experience. Profs teaching as little as possible and focused on research. You can do great at either but understand what you’re getting into.
I don’t even know what the COA is at either college my kids attend. We worry about the billed costs and we control all the other costs. Control travel costs, books, social life, clothing.
One fun thing we learned this semester (D2’s final one) was that one of her scholarships ran out at 120 credits. She needs 130 to graduate, so those final 10 credits did not get money from the state merit scholarship fund. Would have been quite the shock if other scholarships didn’t kick in to make up the difference.
At D2’s school, tuition has risen $2k per year, including the year between and starting, so almost $10k more. It’s been a scramble to keep up with that. D1’s costs haven’t increased that much.
Perhaps you are confusing Duke with another university, as Duke has a very distinguished writing program. Every freshman in the college of arts and sciences has to take Writing 101 (formerly Writing 20), themed courses consisting of no more than 12 students per class. Each course is taught by lecturers with PhDs trained to teach writing, each of whom is hired based on his/her interest and background in teaching. Unsurprisingly, Duke is one of the 19 institutions included in USNWR’s list of the colleges with the best “writing in the disciplines” offerings.
This view highly debatable. For one, I am not at all convinced that dedication to teaching automatically equates to better teaching. There are plenty of people who dedicate a lot of time and effort to teaching but are sadly rather ineffective in the classroom.
Secondly, the smaller faculties of LACs result in professors teaching outside their comfort zone far more often than at comparable universities, which typically have broader arrays of specialists.
Finally, it’s my view that teaching and research are two sides of the same coin. The research university professors do informs rather than detracts from their teaching, and the questions and discussions that arise in the classroom can provide food for thought in one’s research. There are many examples of professors like the classicist Mary Beard, who teaches at the University of Cambridge, who balance research and teaching effortlessly.
Wouldn’t that depend on what the school’s current practices are, including, if applicable, how it redresses any still-existing effects of its past undesirable practices?
Also, there may not be that many older schools without some dirty laundry of this type.
Not true of all large state schools. The 23 campuses of the California State University system focus on undergraduate and masters level education, rather than high research intensity and PhD level education. There are probably many other state schools that are similar in this respect.
Well, Yes, of course. However, undesirable practices might be defined by issues that are popular, and therefore visible. Colleges with a longer history of challenging the status quo may be more likely to currently engage in a culture that will be accepted as being manifestly desirable in the future.
Hillsdale College admitted black and female students earlier than many others, but its president more recently made some controversial comments about “dark ones” or some such that the college later apologized for. Is this what you mean?
The relationship between the college’s administration and students. Will your student spend 4 years protesting the administration or 4 years working cooperatively with the administration on committees that will both improve the school and enhance the student’s resume? How willing is the administration to listen to students and make rapid changes that will correct deficiencies or problems at the college?
Weather. At most schools in colder areas, there are 2 warm months in the fall, & 1 in the spring. So the majority of their time in school is winterish.
How close stores & restaurants are to campus.
How fussy local bars are about fake IDs & such.
How compact the campus is.
I think it's overlooked that many state flagship universities (even ones that are fairly easy to get into like Colorado, Kansas, Iowa, Arizona, and Kentucky) attract a lot of the smartest students in the state & have really excellent professors. People obsessed with prestige often assume that a college that's easy to get into will necessarily be 3rd rate academically.
Too many people assume out-of-staters can't get scholarships from excellent state colleges.
People overlook the enormous differences from college to college regarding how many credits they will get from AP exams.
Some people overlook how nice it is to have gone to a college whose football & basketball games they are able to watch from just about anywhere in the country.
Some people assume people are people, but I found profound differences in students in various parts of the country.