Thanks everyone for the insights! I did a little quick research on some of the highly selective colleges she has mentioned. None of them I’ve checked so far require four years of FL, but some “recommend” it. I do wonder how much weight a “recommendation” will carry.
Her PSAT user percentiles look pretty good - I think she could have a shot at some of the highly selective schools. That’s why I want to give her enough information to make an informed We’ll try to discuss it with her GC as well.
Things have sure changed a lot since I went to college! I do worry about the amount of pressure on my daughter over the next couple of years. Hopefully we’ll be able to find the right balance.
Usually, the “recommendations” can be interpreted as “requirements” for those from a competitive high school and advantaged background. They prefer to use “recommendations” , to keep the door open for applicants who may come from high schools which may be under-resourced. At least that’s what I gather from some posts I’ve read here on CC.
The comments so far seem to confirm my suspicion that “follow you passion” really means “follow your passion as long as your passion is taking APs in every subject.” I’ve been told that I tend to be cynical…
Actually I wouldn’t say that…no need to AP everything. But very selective schools DO often want 4 years of a FL (or 2-3 in HS if begun in middle school - in other words, to reach level 4).
Yeah, I think everyone’s advice here isn’t that you should max out on APs just because, just that it could work in your behavior to use them strategically. If you said that she hated Latin, most of us would say then drop it and don’t sweat it. But because she’s aiming for a top school, then a fourth year of language might be the better choice. She can take an extra science elective senior year, which will show that she is maintaining rigor all four years.
If she’s a sophomore I’d be inclined to encourage her to take the Latin. There are enough colleges that would like to see those three years of language in high school I wouldn’t risk it. She’d got plenty of time for extra science electives.
Actually, it probably means “follow your passion” in academic electives *beyond the base level expectations/i. The academic electives do not necessarily have to be additional AP courses.
I don’t see this as passion vs rigor at all. Schools like to see X years of various subjects. It is only by coincidence that for the OP, this gets her to an AP class. For Spanish or French it would not be AP language vs honors, it would be Spanish 4 vs honors. So count yourself lucky that she can take only 4 years of language and complete an AP in fulfilling that expectation. Most other students don’t get that perk until the 5th year.
UW-Madison, a state flagship, states that most accepted students will have 4 years of a foreign language. That is not a requirement but to be competitive it seems good to take it. Entering freshmen only take foreign language placement tests if they decide to continue that language at UW and want retroactive credits. Four years of HS (including any in middle school) will meet UW’s graduation requirements for foreign language in any school/college/BA/BS. An exception would be a language major. The grades in HS do not matter. This frees up time for other classes in college. btw- a BS only needs three years and three of one plus two of another will suffice for the BA in L&S (other schools/colleges at UW may require less).
The above is the case for doing one more year of Latin. No need to do any senior year since she won’t need to for college and doesn’t plan on majoring in it. Four years will give a firm foundation, beyond that is more culture and literature- another reason to not bother with a the fifth year and to take a different class as a senior.
For a potential science major it sounds like she will be taking plenty of science courses without sacrificing the Latin. There will be plenty of courses available in college as well.
Eons ago (before the internet and online translations) my Chemistry department recommended French, German and Russian as languages for the major. I did four years of French through junior year of HS then 2+ years of college German. No regrets about learning another language.
As to course rigor- let her take some fun courses in HS (and in college!). There is no need to take EVERY possible most rigorous course and it sounds like she is already taking plenty. Hopefully she has time for music, art or other courses for fun and not the almighty college application.
I recall that I in my day and my son is his day couldn’t take all of the most rigorous classes because of schedule conflicts. Son did the fourth year of French and Honors English instead of an AP one his junior year. He went on to Honors math and physics as a college freshman (took no college chemistry, my major). No worries about fitting in foreign language while in college. He did several courses in non-STEM areas beyond those needed for breadth requirements as well. We are all so much more than our majors or professions.
Short answer- stick with the Latin. Enjoy HS and being a teen. Have fun with classes.
@wis75 I appreciate all of your advice. I do really want my daughter to be able to take fun classes, but at the same time I want her to understand the possible effects of her choices. I will discuss the potential benefits of taking another year of Latin. (BTW, she is quite good at Latin, she just isn’t very interested in it.)
Unfortunately, elective slots are few and far between at her HS (lots of required classes). There can also be scheduling issues as you noted, so we’ll have to see how that goes.
We live in Florida, so I checked out the requirements at UF (state flagship). Interestingly, they only require 2 years or FL and recommend 3. I was kind of surprised. Not sure she’ll want to go to UF because I think she will end up preferring a smaller school, but it’s a good data point to have.
My older son who went to Carnegie Mellon, liked that getting a 5 on the AP Latin exam meant he didn’t have to take a language in college. He took fun extra math and science there. (Actually he took some in high school too, opting to take an honors level astrophysics course over AP Environmental Science.)
A case can be made for doing this the other way around – AP Bio in 11th grade and physics in 12th. AP Bio provides good preparation for the Biology Subject Test, which a student with this schedule could take at the end of junior year.
Yes, and the student may do well on the test if the high school physics curriculum is well aligned with the subject test’s expectations. But some high school curricula are not. They may not include all of the topics that are on the subject test.
On the other hand, students can be confident that the AP Biology curriculum, which is reasonably well standardized and happens to be a good match for the subject test’s expectations, provides good preparation for the subject test. Also, those students who took regular high school biology before taking the AP course (as is required in some high schools) have the advantage of having two years of preparation in biology before taking the test instead of just one.
My youngest (definitely not a STEM kid) took AP Bio in 11th grade and did well (over 700) on the SAT test (he took it twice, since he had to come back for a second round of subject tests so he tried both the M and E versions and got the same score each time). He also took AP Physics C as a senior having taken regular physics in 10th grade. I don’t think he’d have done nearly as well on the physics subject test as C doesn’t cover all the material.
Do not settle for Florida standards. We retired to Florida a few years ago and it is NOT a powerhouse for educating its children. Requirements and being competitive are two different things. We all need to take classes we can do well in but don’t enjoy as much. Putting up with one more year of Latin now may widen her options later. Plus, it sounds like she will still be able to take some science. She may also change her mind about college sizes- large campuses are composed of many smaller units and usually offer many more courses in the sciences.
Will she have regrets if she takes another year of Latin? No. She might when it is time to apply to OOS or private colleges if she stops at three years.
OP “Most rigorous schedule vs. follow your passion - What do colleges really want?”
The way you worded the question, they want you to follow your passion. Your question is asking about colleges in general, not top colleges. Also, what they really want you to do may be entirely different from what they want to see before they will admit you.
In contrast, If you had asked “What do top colleges want to see before they are going to admit you?” that is a different question entirely.
I’ve been told that I tend to be cynical…