Motivation: origin, contributing factors

[mystery2me]

<p>Garland’s “differently motivated” says it for me when I think about my children. School has always been easy for S, who is surely differently motivated; he just did enough in K-12 to keep us off his back, graduating with a 3.5 UW but with the aid of strong test scores and a geographic diversity advantage getting accepted at a Top 20 University. There he’s put in only as much effort as it takes to get by in required classes but is maintaining above a 3.5 in his major, which he wouldn’t attribute to working harder but, because he likes the material, he probably is. Although his work history so far has consisted of minimum-wage jobs which he got only when pushed, he actually has been offered an amazing internship because he spent a lot of time researching possibilities and his coursework fits closely with the position’s needs. Younger D on the other hand actually qualified for Title 1 services early in elementary school as she struggled to learn to read but, perhaps as a result, was driven throughout K-12 to achieve academically and did–just graduating with a 3.93 UW in an AP and Honors curriculum. She now says, “Just to warn you . . . I’m not going to stress out too much about my grades in college.” </p>

<p>Largely the differences in what motivates them seem innate, although environment probably plays into it as well; D saw us spending a lot of time trying to get S to perform up to his capability academically and knew we valued it even though we never emphasized academics as much with her when it looked like they might be a struggle.</p>

[munchkin]

<p>Someone posted the lack of motivation in my d was that we spoiled her - that she didn’t need to earn money, so I have been wondering about it. I don’t know how does that explain that kids with the exact same resources available to them, eg. her best friend or our friend’s children apparently do not suffer from the same lack . They took the opportunities provided to them and ran with it, and end up being more accomplished. </p>

<p>I am inclined to agree that motivation innate as someone posted, but there must be a environmental component. I notice most people from extremely impoverished upbringings tend to be very motivated to seek financial security, must more so people who never went without.</p>

[Helms2Lee]

<p>Thanks to all who responded. Obviously, there is no easy answer to my question. Per people’s responses, and my own perceptions, there are many factors that come into play (heredity, environment, personality, varying interests, birth order, etc.). I think the thread got off subject, but that happens most of the time, here in CC. </p>

<p>A few random thoughts…</p>

<p>Priorities; some students (for whatever reasons) have placed academics higher in their priorities - than other students. </p>

<p>Maturity; is it a sign of maturity, that a student places academics higher in their priorities? Maybe yes, maybe no. It might just be a matter of personal choice, and not necessarily maturity. Probably the student (and the parents of the student) who place a higher priority in academics might argue ‘yes’ - that those students are more mature. I don’t know. </p>

<p>Maturity-2; is it reasonable to expect that our children (especially in early high school) should place academics near the top of their priorities. (I know that I would like our son and daughter to place it high on the list). Is is ‘reasonable’, especially when we realize that they are going through the stages of maturation, including puberty, with all the social implications, trying to figure out who they are, which friends are important, why some people treat them with disrespect, why some teachers are jerks, and the life long issue of self worth. Please don’t take what I am saying the wrong way. I am not of the school of thought that schools and parents should make sure that our students “feel good” - at the expense of a good education. I am just thinking out loud, and am asking myself, if I am giving my own children enough consideration to their natural stages of maturation. </p>

<p>Discipline; to what degree does the disciplinary involvement of parents in the upbringing of their children affect the results of their children? No easy answer on that one either. One could argue that poor parental discipline may contribute to poor motivation of the child. And this could come from both ends of the spectrum. On the one extreme, over-bearing parents may cause a child to ‘shutdown’. On the flip side, lax parents with little or no discipline, may cause (or contribute to) a child having no discipline himself or herself).</p>

<p>I will pose this question; what are the pros and cons of the following?</p>

<p>random child #1 with innate intelligence, probable moderate to high IQ, who does not have to put much effort into studying, and typically gets things the first time, does not require tutoring, and typically scores high on tests (including placement exams). But whose motivation level is average, at best. </p>

<p>random child #2, average intelligence, has to put a lot of effort, and many hours, into studying, often requires tutoring, reads subject matter twice to get the salient points, scores well but not high on most tests. Yet, this person is highly motivated. He/she willingly puts the extra hours into studying; willingly seeks out a tutor, and is able to bring grades up to a decent level.</p>

<p>To summarize, child #1 has a GPA of higher than 4.0, but average to low motivation. Child #2 has a GPA of 2.75-3.0, but is highly motivated. </p>

<p>I made up the profiles of both children. But surely there are millions of children who fit both profiles. (My kids are closer to child #1 example than child #2, but they do not fit the profile #1 exactly). </p>

<p>I guess the bottomline is that each child is unique, and should be loved for their uniqueness. Maybe, depending upon their profile, their traits, their personality, their abilities, their motivations, their interests, - then they need to be treated according to those factors.</p>

[mmaah]

<p>Below are some links to articles on Prof. Carol Dweck’s work on “mindset”–which is an interesting concept that helps explain how motivation is shaped by experience in learning settings (both home and school)–and particularly by how praise is given. Her Mindset book is somewhat disappointing, but easy to read. If you want to learn about this in more detail though, the links below and then searching for the academic articles might be more instructive than the popular press book.<br>
[The</a> Power (and Peril) of Praising Your Kids – New York Magazine](<a href=“http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/]The”>The Power (and Peril) of Praising Your Kids -- New York Magazine - Nymag)
[Students</a>’ View of Intelligence Can Help Grades : NPR](<a href=“http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7406521]Students”>Students' View of Intelligence Can Help Grades : NPR)
[Fixed</a> Mindset vs. Growth Mindset: Which One Are You? Michael Graham Richard](<a href=“http://michaelgr.com/2007/04/15/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mindset-which-one-are-you/]Fixed”>http://michaelgr.com/2007/04/15/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mindset-which-one-are-you/)
[STANFORD</a> Magazine: March/April 2007 > Features > Mind-set Research](<a href=“http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html]STANFORD”>http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html)</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>I think to even talk about motivation relative to our kids we have to basically make the assumption that there is some mid-point where kids fall on some line either in the direction or more motivated or the other direction less motivated. It presumes on some level that “motivated” kids will want good grades, want to participate in sports, want to participate in extra curricular activities (that are enriching). This is presuming that “motivated” is used in a positive way. It also sounds as if “we” want “motivated” to be a predictor of success. I’m not so sure that’s always true. But I will say that most college bound kids who successfully complete college and move onto adult lives are motivated by something be it music, desire for money, desire to do something. By the time young people are adult their motivations are more tuned. I’ve always felt that the majority of time the high school years were all about motivation to conformity and not so much to individual motivation. My kids, like most here, are motivated by very, very different things and are in general unmotivated by some things. They might appear motivated because they fear parental reprisal or out of peer pressure or because they want something and they have to do something to get that but when push comes to shove it’s quite obvious what motivates them and what really doesn’t and is just towing the line.</p>

[mammall]

<p>I read somewhere years ago that the best way to kill motivation in your kids is to tell them they’re really smart. You should praise only for effort, not ability. I think there’s truth to this.</p>

[Tiger09]

<p>To me, motivation means to force yourself to work diligently towards a defined goal without much prodding from others. As a parent, I try to be a good example to my daughter by walking the talk. For us helicopter parents, I think there is a strong tendency towards pushing too hard at times. According to my daughter, she mentioned that this is a real “turn-off” and can cause the opposite of the desired result.</p>

<p>So, I posed the question to her about motivation. She viewed motivation as a means to improve oneself, to be better, or best in her classes. I suppose she got this from us who have always encouraged her to do the very best in anything you tackle, whether it be in academics, dance, music, sports, etc. Our motto is that anything worth doing, is certainly worth doing well. </p>

<p>Another very important influence is the type of friends she hangs out with. Although a junior, many of her friends are seniors who are highly motivated and college bound to good schools. I think the successful seniors have been a very positive influence on her attitude. In high school the peers seem definitely to have much more influence than the parents. So, cultivating top students as friends can really help!</p>

[mammall]

<p>I love this thread and hope it doesn’t die quite yet.</p>

<p>My older child is motivated to the nth degree. The second one, equal ability, is much more casual about school - fine with an A- average.</p>

<p>It drives me absolutely crazy that this state of affairs is dicated by birth order and there’s nothing I can do to light a fire under Kid 2 to perform at the level of Kid 1. Do I think Kid 1 will have a better life? Not really. Still, I hate something like birth order should be such a determining factor in my kids’ lives.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>I don’t think anybody said DICTATED by birth order. I think it might be partly ASSOCIATED with birth order; maybe not even a causal relationship. I detest the word “lazy” because it seems so judgemental, but more importantly, unchangeble. When I think unmotivated I think you can always do a little to tweak the external motivation. I like to believe finding the RIGHT thing to “tweak” is key. To develop a behavior, the reward must balance the effort. Parents can give mild reinforcers for things that come easy to their kid but need stronger ones where things are much less likely to happen on their own. In my house, a little support for any sport is all it takes to keep my son going. For my D, the same is true for academics. The opposite would never work .For both, their friends make the most difference. D is friends with the top students. S with the top athletes. The peers motivate WAY more than I EVER could.</p>

[LazyBum201]

<br>

<p>Since i started the thread, i will answer the question on what i mean by “motivation”. Primarly what i mean is - how much the individual is motivated to do things (on their own, without being told to do them) such as (1) get a job during the summer, or, (2) do what is necessary to get good grades in school - either high school or college, or, (3) to try out for sports, join clubs, run for offices, etc.,. </p>

<br>

<p>Different people will be motivated to different levels for each of the above areas (or might be, anyway). Our son has wanted “a job” since he was very small; at 2 years and 1 month of age, he said one morning, “Daddy’s working. Mommy’s working? Where’s (his name)’s work?” Soon after turning 8, he had three job offers (all in programming) from chatting with men who owned tech companies or ran a million plus budget university lab, and by the time he was 9, he had talked us into allowing him to accept one. Our son has also always wanted to have good grades, but he’s not always been wild about doing homework, so he’s motivated to learn material and do well without having to do <em>work</em> any more than he needs to for some topics (while others he goes over and above what is needed by a long way). He’s always been very into joining groups (and was on a college sports team, on the SGA, in numerous clubs and organizations in college and in graduate school, is co-director for one program and on the executive committee for his dorm government and so on), to the point where we have felt the need to intervene and insist he drop some (like debate team as the competitions were eating into too much of his weekends, we felt).</p>

<br>

<p>Many kids don’t think much beyond today, while others are aware of, and base some of their actions, on ‘the future’.</p>

<br>

<p>Our son certainly seems to fall into the latter group there, though sometimes it doesn’t <em>seem</em> like it (for example, when he opted to go listen to the XKCD comic writer speak on campus rather than work on a final project worth 40% of his course grade that was due in a few days and then went to a party the next night rather than work on the project yet again…we felt he was tossing away an A in that course, yet he still got an A+ in the class).</p>

<br>

<p>Motivation could also include things like doing chores, keeing one’s room clean, seeing where one could be helpful and offering help (but those type of things go beyond pure motivation, and include traits such as selfishness and/or selflessness.</p>

<br>

<p>He kept a clean room when living at home with us without us much having to say anything, and for a graduate student (at least at his U), seems to keep a fairly clean dorm room (much as it might seem a mess to those who haven’t seen the OTHER graduate students’ rooms) and often offers to help others, again to a point where I think he overextends himself at times.</p>

<br>

<p>Maybe another way of looking at the issue is, what issue/things does each individual consider important, or not important? And why do some students consider grades, jobs, sports, clubs, etc. important, while others do not?</p>

<br>

<p>Part of it will be that some students like formal education and don’t mind being indoors while others crave the outdoors and/or a lack of structure, and some like exercising their brains while others prefer exercising their bodies while others like to exercise both in good measure, and some are more into socializing and/or service while others prefer more independent pursuits. In other words, it boils down to personality and individual preferences/style.</p>

<br>

<p>I have a very difficult time,personally, viewing the two different areas as “equal but different”. I think the area of {grades, jobs, ECs} falls into an area of "not easy to do NOW, not fun to do NOW, but necessary NOW for rewards in the FUTURE. Whereas, the second area {motivated to become good at video games, motivated to have friendships} fall more into an area of “fun NOW” but nocessarily related to, or associated with the FUTURE.</p>

<br>

<p>Don’t sell short those who are in the ‘fun now’ group - many such “laid back” people are the ones who come up with the new wet suit or surfboard or video game or such that is the foundation for multi-million dollar companies. There is much to be said for having a strong interest in things, even if they aren’t the things many feel are “high potential” things at the time the interest begins.</p>

<br>

<p>I have been puzzled for years, wondering why some kids are very motivated, and some are not. So far, I have not seen or found a coorelation between the parents and kids.</p>

<br>

<p>Have you considered home environment rather than just career success of parents?</p>

<p>[Relationship</a> Between Quality of Home Environment, Locus of Control and Achievement Motivation Among High Achiever](<a href=“http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:HpZZb9WkNlgJ:www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/JHE/JHE-19-0-000-000-2006-Web/JHE-19-4-000-000-2006-Abstract-PDF/JHE-19-4-253-257-2006-1345-Jaswal-S/JHE-19-4-253-257-2006-1345-Jaswal-S-Text.pdf+motivation+correlation+to+parents&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us&client=firefox-a]Relationship”>http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:HpZZb9WkNlgJ:www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/JHE/JHE-19-0-000-000-2006-Web/JHE-19-4-000-000-2006-Abstract-PDF/JHE-19-4-253-257-2006-1345-Jaswal-S/JHE-19-4-253-257-2006-1345-Jaswal-S-Text.pdf+motivation+correlation+to+parents&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us&client=firefox-a)</p>

<p>“Results showed that good quality of home environment had significant positive correlation with ‘high’ level (P<0.001) of achievement motivation among high achievers. It was found that as the quality of home environment gets deteriorated, the level of achievement motivation also gets deteriorated. ‘Internal’ locus of control had significant positive correlation with quality of home environment. ‘External’ locus of control was non-significantly related with achievement levels and quality of home-environment.”</p>

<p>Naturally, this doesn’t explain how siblings have such different levels of motivation, but I suspect birth order has a big effect there. Once a child has claimed the “star student” status or such position, other children might feel they ought to focus on the “bum status” for attention or the “social star” status or whatever.</p>

<br>

<p>To reveal my situation, both of my kids are very smart (academically), but neither of them are overly motivated. My son scored a 34 composite in the ACT (very good score), and was one of only 3 students, in his graduating class, to have obtained better than a 4.0 in all 16 quarters in high school. Yet, his good grades come more because he is so smart, and doesn’t require much effort, then due to being highly motivated. (in some ways it is a curse). </p>

<br>

<p>I have written much the same about this situation (people being able to coast on having a strong brain).</p>

<br>

<p>My daughter is not quite as smart as my son, but she is much more motivated. She has an 3.86 her freshman year (not quite as high as my son’s GPA), yet she spends far more time studying -then my son ever did. Yet, even she does not do much more than she thinks is necessary. </p>

<br>

<p>My college biology teacher friend told me at lunch yesterday that the more evolved species do not waste effort…they don’t swim when it’s cold in the water to conserve energy, for example, and she feels that people who don’t do more than necessary are simply smart enough to conserve their energy for other things. My brother had around a 3.0 in high school, but he was freakin’ brilliant and anyone who’s ever spent 5 minutes chatting with him since he was a toddler could tell that, so nobody ever really worried about how his grades were before he hit college. He felt his time was better spent inventing things, and so they were. The Bionic Man was a popular TV show when we were kids and he said as a young teen, “Someday, I will invent an artificial arm that can play the piano as well as a human arm can.” He has won numerous honors and an inventor of the year award for a patent for an arm that can function just off of the user “thinking” of what it wants the arm to do, just like we use our human arms. His blowing off high school grades didn’t hurt him in the least (nor did not going to a top tier college), and indeed, might just have helped him.</p>

<br>

<p>It just has me curious, what motivates kids to do well (academically) or to become involved in sports, clubs, etc.</p>

<br>

<p>Part of it could be what natural talent they have. People often like doing what they have talent doing. Part of it could be how people react to what they do (like if a parent reprimands a kid not making a goal in soccer, the kid is probably less likely to want to take up soccer than if the kid, at least in the formative years, gets accolades for simply hitting the ball rather than missing the ball). Part of it could be what astrological sign the person was born under (I jest here, but then again, who the heck has studied that to really have a clue? No doubt some Gemini has - I hear they love identical twin studies!).</p>