<p>Again, so it’s not missed by newbies, an excellent past thread on second thoughts from those having gone through the admissions process:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/248498-since-hindsight-20-20-what-would-you-have-done-differently.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/248498-since-hindsight-20-20-what-would-you-have-done-differently.html</a></p>
<p>sjth -</p>
<p>we have a very different take from allmusic on meeting teachers at audition time. like you, we were unable to visit everywhere twice (mostly because my son was so busy with school work and audition prep) and as we approached the audition dates, it just seemed awful not to have found any teachers at some of the schools. we also thought that they might look askance at such a request, but we tried with the first audition and the teacher agreed to see him. he was very helpful, did not interfere with my son’s performance in any notable way and actually encouraged him a lot (“you’re just the kind of student we’re looking for and you should do very well tomorrow”). That had been a “safety” school so we were less concerned about appearances, etc. He was accepted within about 10 days. But, emboldened by that positive experience, my son arranged to see teachers at 3 other schools. They all seemed to be on more or less the same page about using the lesson more as a preaudition coaching rather than a full-blown technical lesson. They all encouraged my son a lot, gave him someone he knew liked him in the jury the next day. If I had it to do again, I think I would have had him consider arranging pre-audition lessons at every school. It really softened the experience for him. Perhaps your son’s teacher has had a different experience, but my son enjoyed the lessons and got into all the schools where he did this.</p>
<p>The jazz auditions my son did at top programs were all quite loose, attended by the teacher on his instrument (because mostly there was just one or two at most), generally positive experiences. If you are well-rehearsed on your pieces and comfortable with improvising and jamming with other musicians, it seems that the jazz audition is low-stress. Maybe it’s my son’s personality, but it just seems that, for jazz students, the emphasis is not so much on technique as I think it is for the classical student, and you kind of get in there and have a musical conversation with the faculty and undergrads who are there to back you up.</p>
<p>Thank you, jazzzmomm, Allmusic, and the rest on this thread. Just found this cc site recently. Your comments have gone a long way in relieving stress and assuring us we will emerge from this process next spring with a happy kid at the “right fit” school.</p>
<p>beeflat, welcome. Great name.</p>
<p>Wow, until violadad did the edit, I was beginning to wonder if he was prescient.</p>
<p>beeflat, welcome. Should those who use the German system simply call you bee?</p>
<p>Alas, BassDad if I but were.</p>
<p>I could make a killing as a college counselor, with precognition revealing aid, both merit and need based, admission decisions and audition results.</p>
<p>As well as job potential, which of course would be a rather hefty additional fee. :D</p>
<p>Thanks, violadad and bassdad . . . you can call me whatever you like. no problem. Son’s a jazz guitarist. I’ve become very easy going, just like him.</p>
<p>The heck with the counseling, I was going to suggest a trip to the local casinos by way of the race track and lottery agent.</p>
<p>Thanks all–We will definitely try to arrange lessons at audition time. S2 is feeling quite relaxed about the audition process–he plays with new and varied musicians all the time, so is definitely comfortable “on the fly.” It’s just finding the teacher fit that is the big Q, and now we have a strategy to try, thanks to you all.</p>
<p>IS it your experience that finding “the” teacher is less important with jazz students? Obviously, you want someone you can work with, but it seems to me that classical musicials depend much more heavily on having a particular teacher with whom they click. My observation with jazz is that. beyond questions of technique that are best answered by a specialist in the instrument, one can learn a lot about improvising from work with jazz musicians of other instruments.</p>
<p>We want to schedule a sample lesson for my daughter at Jacobs school of music. First of all is it too early? She is a junior, we are visiting in November and don’t plan on going back unless she wants to audition there. Second there are 3 clarinet professors (Howard Klug, Eli Eban, & James Campbell). How do we decide which studio she would be interested in? Has anyone had experience with any of them? HELP</p>
<p>Y’know, folks, the directions this thread is taking are interesting and all, but they’re getting pretty far away from what I’d intended this thread to be. I was kind of hoping we’d talk about what we saw when we visited music schools. I’m concerned that the information that is in line with the actual subject of the thread will get lost among all the other stuff. </p>
<p>Could you folks, maybe, start or add to a different thread that’s more in line with the subject of your post if you’re not going to discuss impressions of your visits to music schools?</p>
<p>don, a good point, and thanks for starting this thread.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t see this thread drifting from the spirit of your title. </p>
<p>And I do agree that specific questions are best addressed within a new thread.</p>
<p>If you had intended it solely as a descriptive narrative report of a posters observations, yes it has drifted.</p>
<p>Looking back to the beginning, I was the guilty party, and began adding links to several aspects that are part of the whole visitation/selection/audition process. </p>
<p>Yet the whole process is intertwined, and it’s difficult for the neophyte to sort out the variables of when, who, and how. It often makes more sense to be able to see the whole picture, and how different posters handle different aspects.</p>
<p>There’s roughly 2 to 3 dozen seminal threads on this forum (most have varying degrees of thread drift), that in conjunction will help to get a neophyte through the process fairly painlessly. This thread is already one of them, and seems to be following the general pattern of give and take that’s the beauty of this forum.</p>
<p>Your thread, your call. If you pm/email a mod at the page bottom, they can insert a “please report visits only, use new thread to ask questions tag” in your opening post.</p>
<p>No harm, no foul. Just my $.02, for what it’s worth. :)</p>
<p>clarinetmon, I’ve started a new thread for your question.</p>
<p>First my rant: That’s why I thought we should wait until there was enough substance on here before sticking it. Perhaps a new thread, titled “Music School Visit Reports” could replace this one?</p>
<p>Second, my contribution:</p>
<p>Miami University of Ohio, where my D is currently a sophomore violin performance major (double major with German)</p>
<p>My review of Miami is located in the college review section of this website. Here are some additional details specific to music.</p>
<p>My D visited the school with her aunt (an alumni) the weekend before Thanksgiving of her senior year. She had a trial lesson with the violin teacher at that time, which she felt went well. The teacher had trained at the Mozarteum, as had her teacher in Germany, so the teaching style and technique was very much what she was familiar with.</p>
<p>She did not intend to be a music major, but wanted to continue lessons and involvement, so was seeking out schools that would allow her to do that.</p>
<p>My D auditioned there for music scholarships, as a non-major, in January 07. The application was required for auditioning, so she had to fill it out regardless of whether she was majoring or not. As I recall, it involved a separate application and 3 letters of recommendation. At least 2 letters had to be from music teachers (she used her violin teacher here, her violin teacher from Germany, and her community orchestra director).</p>
<p>At the audition, we signed in and D was shown to a practice room. We returned to a lobby area outside the auditorium where there was a nice spread of food for the parents, and tables and chairs set up. Lots of instruments were auditioning at the same time. While D was auditioning, another girl at my table had just finished auditioning on clarinet. The clarinet teacher came out and talked with her and her parents. She asked if the girl had considered music education rather than performance “because there are so many clarinet players auditioning, her chances would be better as an education major”, and they wanted to know “where else she was auditioning.” I am guessing the audition didn’t go real well, but everyone stayed very positive, and I think the girl and her family were somewhat unaware of the message between the lines. (As I said, this all took place at “my” table – I wasn’t eavesdropping – I was just there.)</p>
<p>When D came out, she was accompanied by both the violin teacher and the viola teacher, both told me they thought D did well, and they would enjoy having her there. They also introduced us to the music school dean. </p>
<p>D had to take a music theory placement exam, which she said was very hard. While she took the exam, the violin teacher took me to his office to discuss the program and explain why D would do well there. He also took us on a driving tour, and then into the one-street downtown for lunch.</p>
<p>He encouraged us then, and later, by email, to consider being a performance major. She did end up switching to performance, and is double majoring. They gave her a nice music scholarship.</p>
<p>The music teachers and classrooms were in the CPA, but the auditorium there is for the theater program. The music venue is located on the other side of campus! This year (D is a sophomore there now) they have renovated a beautiful old building on Western Campus, across the street from CPA, where most of the music classes, practice rooms, etc, are now housed.</p>
<p>My D fits well in this program, which does not come close to a conservatory program, but is way above the community orchestra she played in while in high school.</p>
<p>Orchestra placement is also by auditioning, at the start of the school year, and is open to everyone in the school. Not everyone makes it, though. (I assume all music majors do.)</p>
<p>Binx, thanks for your post. This is the kind of information I think many of us senior HS parents are happy to read.</p>
<p>Okay - Here’s another! (Some of this is repeat from previous posts on this board, but now all here in one place.)</p>
<p>Music School report: Juilliard</p>
<p>Here’s a walk down Memory Land for me. In winter, 04, I accompanied S to his audition. We lived in Germany at the time, and much of the following report is taken from an email I sent my H after the fact. I tried to edit it to past tense, update the info, remove S’s name, and add a few comments here and there. </p>
<p>Juilliard is essentially a couple buildings in Lincoln Center. There is one dorm, which they share with the American School of Ballet. There is an academic building, with classrooms, recital hall, offices, etc. And then there are the concert halls shared with professionals. It has been undergoing rennovations.</p>
<p>My S visited with my H in spring, 03. He was unable to arrange a trial lesson. Juilliard would not release the contact info for the teacher; said they would contact him on S’s behalf, but we never heard anything. I will tell you that, while the music education is outstanding, the “business” aspect has sometimes reminded me that we are largely dealing with “artistes”. Even though we were coming from overseas, we did not receive an audition day/time until about a month ahead of time - too late for cheap airfares. The day conflicted with another audition, so we had to scramble with the other school to get a different date.</p>
<p>Juilliard auditions are typically the same weekend as the Curtis audition (and Manhattan and/or Mannes?) We went to Philly on Friday, he auditioned there on Saturday, then we took the train to NYC, he met with the accompanist Saturday night, and auditioned on Sunday. Then we flew home. I had scheduled a nervous breakdown at that point (for both of us), but it never materialized.</p>
<p>NYC was surprising to me. People were much friendlier than I was expecting – perhaps because I was coming from a Germany perspective. People said “excuse me” and stuff! Although at the train station, I stepped aside to let somebody ahead of me on the escalator and she said, “You’re not from around here, are you?” (She may not have been, either!) </p>
<p>On the negative, I was very claustraphobic there. Too many buildings, too many cars, too many people, no trees. And it was very expensive, too. But it did seem do-able.</p>
<p>My tour guide was a 3rd year oboe player, and I asked her about the competitiveness that I’d heard about. She said that she had heard a lot of horror stories, too, but that it isn’t true. She said that everybody there is very talented, they all know it, and know it about each other, as well, so there’s nothing to prove. Everyone is very supportive of each other. [She said that very matter-of-fact - did not sound boastful at all, and we didn’t take it that way. Now 4 years later, I think that has been my S’s experience as well, but I think that some departments may be more competitive than others. The brass players all get along very well.]</p>
<p>The audition was very well run. Sign in was smooth, lots of signs and helpful students. A huge bin of bananas! Parents waited in a large lobby (don’t know what it’s like now, given all the rennovations). Students were escorted to a practice room upstairs, then to the audition room.</p>
<p>S was allowed to choose which piece to start with. He chose a concerto, and was allowed to play through the cadenza. Had a mild panic at the start - the piano intro wasn’t clicking with him at all and he was afraid he was having a major brain freeze. Suddenly he realized the pianist was playing the wrong concerto. He stopped the pianist, they all had a good laugh, and the rest went smoothly. Then they talked to him a bit about himself, using his application info, which they had in front of them. They asked him about his composing, about his teachers, etc. Then he played a couple excerpts. </p>
<p>He was one of the first to audition (6th, actually) so we had no idea how the rest of the day went, or what they might remember from the earlier students. </p>
<p>We got to see the dorms. They are all suites, with 3 doubles, 2 singles, and a living room. And 1 full and 2 half baths. Freshmen only get doubles. Roommates will be other freshmen, probably not in the same discipline, as they try to mix them up on purpose. It is one of the only times there is interaction between the departments. The rest of the suite will be mixed up as well, with upper classmen and graduate students intermingled. Freshmen must live in dorms, after that it’s lottery. Each suite is single sex, but the floors are mixed. There is one floor that is girls only. (S said he wanted to live on that one!) One floor is quiet (no practice rooms, no practicing in your own room, either) and one floor is alcohol free. The whole building is smoke free.</p>
<p>In the information meeting, I asked a generic question about financial aid – explained that our situation was messy as US Citizens working abroad, and that the forms didn’t really fit. She acknowledged that the forms were limiting, said they had a committee that read each application individually, and letters of explanation helped. Juilliard only does Financial Need – says everybody there would qualify for merit! Interesting point: they don’t deduct anything from their award if you get outside scholarships (Unless it’s something like a full scholarship). They encourage students to get help from wherever to decrease debt. </p>
<p>S was notified of acceptance in early April. Scholarship and financial aid info came at the same time.</p>
<p>My S and I visited 4 schools last year (we tried to visit a 5th). DS is a senior this year applying for Voice Performance (baritone). </p>
<p>We took a day trip to Hartt in the fall. I think that there has been plenty of discussion about the Hartt campus and facility elsewhere on this board, and I do not think it is inaccurate. The campus borders good and not-so-good parts of Hartford, but I don’t think the area is any worse than the city environments that other schools are in. My son, who is sensitive to this sort of thing, was annoyed to see trash on the ground. The building is one of those 1960’s style long – rectangular and fairly narrow – so that most of the rooms and offices have windows. It is in reasonable repair. I personally was impressed with the musical energy that was emanating from the various rooms. We visited with the Admissions office and had a good discussion, including a back-and-forth to check out whether my son was a serious musician (we have come to expect some of this when he walks in cold). She then walked us down to spend some time with the head of the voice department where we watched some of two lessons and chatted with her. We very much appreciated that opportunity, as at that point we had not learned about being more activist in arranging meetings with faculty.</p>
<p>In the spring we did a road trip to Eastman, Oberlin, Toronto and McGill. Even though it was March we did suffer some weather challenges on the road.
At Eastman, we had a tour of the school. We had failed in advance to make contact and appointments with the faculty, and the admissions office does not help you out on that front. Eastman is very compact with the residence and school facilities all within several blocks. The performance space is very nice. I should note that the campus is not, at least according to the Admissions person, open to one poking around. So, it probably helps if you can find someone you know to give a more personalized tour. The building is older but seems to be in good repair. On a second trip at the beginning of the summer, DS met with two faculty, who he sang for and had a good discussion with. We also did spend some time wandering around the central Rochester area, and really like it. There seems to be strong support for classical music in the area. One highlight was going to the museum and listening to the Eastman organ students play the 17th century organ that has been recently restored (students pump it and you can see the bellows – very cool). DS felt that the school could offer some of the flexibility he is looking for and he liked the people. And, if you are in town, go have lunch or dinner at the Dinosaur Bar-B-Q!!!</p>
<p>We slid dramatically into Oberlin on an ice storm. Oberlin is about 30 minutes south west of Cleveland. It is an area of fairly low rolling hills, not quite flat, and I think it is fair to say that it feels like it is in the middle of nowhere, but it really isn’t. The Conservatory facilities are excellent with very nice practice rooms. We had a very nice discussion with the Admissions staff. The school is open and welcoming. We were able to wander around the conservatory facilities, and DS was able to attend classes of interest. The overall Oberlin campus is rather architecturally eclectic, and the students are diverse as well. We went to a Senior Organ recital, which was presented at two sites, and it was superb and impressive. DS is very comfortable with the Oberlin scene and liked the Con a lot.</p>
<p>The University of Toronto was next on our list. The night before the scheduled visit we went to the Toronto Symphony and had a grand time. The hall is quite a contemporary marvel, with very nice acoustics, and the performance was superb. They have a very energetic new conductor. I recommend it highly. That was the highlight of Toronto. We headed over to the school the next morning, and they didn’t seem to remember we were coming, and to top it off, the school was heading into spring break and no one was around. Given that a snowstorm of significant proportion was coming our way, we decided to haul out and get on the road to Montreal.</p>
<p>We have a real soft spot for Montreal and love the scene there. DS likes to practice his French, and we have found a really nice B&B to stay at. McGill’s Schulich School has a brand new building, and it is quite impressive. The Admissions team was very organized, and we had an excellent tour. DS had also arranged meetings with the voice faculty. He liked the faculty and had good discussions with them. We went to a student presentation of early music, including instruments and voice, and it was very interesting. The performance space was quite nice. Overall, we liked McGill a lot, but DS is does not think that the school has room for the flexibility in his studies that he is looking for. I am sad, because McGill’s costs are significantly less than the US schools, but I guess that is of secondary importance to getting a good fit with DS’s interest!</p>
<p>I think the main bottom line to emphasize is that in order to have a successful trip, you need to do some advance work, both contacting the admissions office and making appointments with faculty in your area of interest. DS generally emailed more faculty than we thought we could fit in, as some were not available. We always included the chair of the department. DS approached these meetings with some trepidation, and they really are mini-interviews, and the faculty will form an opinion as a result of the session. However, I think that they are critical to being sure that you are shooting at the right level of school, and to build some relationships prior to application and auditions.</p>
<p>I hope this is helpful to other!</p>
<p>Thank you, Juggling. DS is interested in both Oberlin and McGill, but we won’t have a chance to visit until auditions, so it’s great to hear your impressions, along with others expressed eloquently in the past! </p>
<p>I have cut and pasted our trip report from Spring Break visits this year. We were concentrating on jazz schools, but were very impressed with Columbia’s music performance degree/jazz emphasis, and S2 thought seriously about applying there for a more broad-based college experience (this was prior to his Eastman summer jazz program, where he loved being immersed in jazz) So, the following is reprinted from April 2008:</p>
<p>New England Conservatory - lovely building and space in the Back Bay area of Boston, adjacent to Northeastern University and a few blocks to Berklee. We did not have an information session, so were unable to learn much about jazz specifically. Then we had a first year tour guide who, while quite accomplished, wasn’t especially knowledgeable when asked specific questions by the group. The most striking thing to our son was the seeming absence of technology–whether it be wireless access anywhere, especially the dorms–or recording/technology related rooms. It all seemed very backward, technologically-speaking, and much more focused on classical music for us. I guess they have a captive audience and aren’t really needing to market themselves. Have to say though that their email contact was outstanding, both generally- and departmentally- speaking. Still don’t know if Tufts music majors not in the 5 year joint program can take lessons/classes freely at NEC… (note: I know NEC has a great jazz program, but we were completely unable to get anyone to talk to us about it…)</p>
<p>Berklee College of Music - WOW, great spaces, and a very dynamic tour guide, a 4th year who could answer any questions. Berklee has 4000 students, and is also located well. Unfortunately, they cannot guarantee housing even to first year students. Their gpa entry point is a “loose” 2.5, so the focus for entry really is on musicianship. What I didn’t know, out of naivete, was that all the conservatories have a liberal arts requirement–typically about 1/3 of hours required. Was impressed with their music business major as well as the MP&E (music production and engineering) degree that are quite leading-edge. Many practice rooms, dorms big enough for large instruments, every student has a Mac loaded with the best software–and Berklee’s studios, media libraries etc. are amazing with up-to-date computers and equipment. Did hear (not from tour guide) that Berklee’s liberal arts classes are hit and miss, with some interesting classes/teachers and others (english?) quite lacking. Met with a 2nd year friend there who said he likes Berklee a lot and has really improved, though he says he has friends who are not happy at all, because they don’t like the liberal arts “school” requirements. It’s a puzzle: with 500+ students playing the same instrument, how do you distinguish yourself. At entry, (Fall) students are placed based on auditions into combos at levels ranging from 1 (low) to 8 (high)–with opportunities to re-audition every semester. Son loved Berklee but his dilemma is desire for higher academics/ability to make connections and really making a go of performance. </p>
<p>The New School for Jazz & Contemporary Music - NYC: Great honest info session, less dynamic tour. Much smaller (350) student body. Director of admissions was very forthright about the challenges of living in NYC and navigating a small school in a big city, sometimes having to go to NJ for lessons on a particular instrument. NY is not for the faint of heart, basically, or immature student. Housing is guaranteed for first years (and later?) but practice space is limited. Student visitors were divided up to sit in on combos, which were impressive apparently. Liberal arts classes are similar to those at Berklee; an MFA degree is offered, and students can take classes at Eugene Lang. A little harder to get into than Berklee because of numbers. Also had reasonable technology and media library, but was lacking in some performance and practice spaces. Lots of talk about upper class gigging in NYC. Son liked it better than Berklee, mostly because of staff, performance opportunities and access to the NYC jazz scene.</p>
<p>Manhattan School of Music - Wow, what a beautiful building! Formerly the site of Juilliard, this historic building houses not only beautiful performance spaces, classrooms and eating, it also houses dorm rooms and practice spaces (adjacent). Students don’t even have to go outside to go from dorm to class which might contribute to some stir-crazy winter months. A very traditional conservatory, there is music coming from all directions in this vibrant building. Info session was in the lobby after an excellent tour into every nook and cranny, and session was inhibited by the loud lunchtime background noise–too bad. I loved it, son didn’t get much of a jazz vibe, and jazz seemed like a lesser option to classical, music theatre, compostion etc. Though MSM is only a few blocks from Columbia, and students can use gym space at Columbia, their liberal arts affiliate is Barnard college, also down the road. </p>
<p>NYU - visited, not official tour. Big school, impressive materials, seemingly great jazz program, but probably too big for us. Loved the vibe on campus though, and friends who go there are very happy with the quality of education overall and in their majors.</p>
<p>This is all very helpful. My D is a junior in HS and we are scheduled to go to Boston in October to visit NEC, Boston U, and Boston Conservatory, coming back thru NY to see Juilliard. In Nov, we will go to Eastman. She is a soprano interested in classical vocal performance. I appreciate all the insight. I need all the help I can get.</p>