Muslim shoots 6 Jews, kills one in Seattle

Parent Cafe
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<p>emeraldkity~</p>

<p>With all due respect (and I <em>DO</em> respect you! :slight_smile: ), I must disagree with the above statement. This was NOT a random shooting, and the shooter’s motives were quite clearly expressed.</p>

<p>If you really think about it, any and every act of violence could be reduced to the specific perpetrators and victims, but the fact is, blanket HATRED for another group is the motivation behind some of these crimes, and the victims <em>are</em> victims solely by virtue of their (sometimes assumed) religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or whatever else happens to offend/anger the perpetrator. </p>

<p>As the mother of kids who have suffered extensive antiSemitism at a small town Kansas high school in which they are the only Jews, I <em>WANT</em> these crimes to be denoted as EXACTLY what they are. My son, who was ADAMANT about attending an out-of-state school largely due to his unfortunate h.s. experiences, was verbally assaulted daily and physically attacked twice by antiSemites. He showed IMMENSE restraint in order to keep his h.s. record clear of any suspensions/expulsions/incidents, but it was a TRUE struggle, and I saw the frustration mount over time.</p>

<p>Once, his girlfriend received an instant message from one of those guys. It said, “I’m Hitler on him. You’ll never find the body.” We took this to the local police who, in their infinite wisdom and extensive experience determined that this was NOT an act of antiSemitism because, “those boys don’t even know what a Jew is.” Ummmmmmmmmmmm, o.k. Isn’t that the <em>PRECISE</em> definition of racial or ethnic discrimination? Hating just to HATE, for NO good reason, strictly because of race or ethnicity or sexual orientation or whatever?</p>

<p>While it was true that these acts were/are perpetrated by some specific individuals, that does not change the nature of the crime <em>or</em> exonerate all of those who sat idly by in the h.s. halls, smiling while my kids were referred to as “f***ing Jews” or *dirty Jews."</p>

<p>So, I guess, I feel that the title of this thread was not unnecessarily divisive…but the act which spawned it WAS.</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>i think what some of you are missing here is that this is a war against islam. I feel thats the most important thing to understand. You can be PC and say not all muslims are anti-semitic and anti-american but the fact remains that muslim groups and orginizations and muslims in general are very silent when it comes to condemning their own people, yet very vocal in their attacks against jews.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, berurah, I think that unless someone has been the brunt of racial, religious and/or ethnic prejudice, it is very hard to understand. For many Jews, it is not a matter of whether or not anti-semitism exists, it is just how much one is personally exposed to. Jews have personally been very good at shrugging it off, because fighting back hasn’t generally led to anything productive. I am very sorry about your children’s HS experiences, but I think that lots of Jews have had similar experiences worldwide, and many have chosen to react how your son did, so as to not be personally penalized with suspensions, etc. I think it is a strength to be able to act as he did.</p>

<p>On the other hand, there is an argument for fighting back in some situations. </p>

<p>In this Seattle incident, this is a targeted hate crime no matter which way you look at it. Of course Muslim leaders will condemn it, what are they going to say? Does it represent all Muslims? No one is saying that. But it was a targeted hate crime, by a self-proclaimed Muslim against a Jewish target. I don’t see why this would be so hard to accept. It certainly isn’t the first time this has happened, and hopefully it is the last time…</p>

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<p>i do not see it being condemned by main muslim leaders. Most of them are silent about things like that. I live in the northeast with a huge jewish precense and even i have experiences anti-semitism by a jewish skinhead…the thing that got me tho is that none of the teachers cared. To them it was some kid being threatening not being an anti-semite…its the fact that they stood by and twidled their thumbs over this…not to different from my parents live in soviet union except there just about everyone hated jews. The problem is its like that all over the world no one cares about the jews they dont care if they are killed or insulted. Its Just like when yrs ago UN peacekeepers in lebanon stood watched idly and videotaped while hizbullah kidnapped israelis. Then pretended that a video tape didnt exist and after alot of pressure finally turned over an edited video tape so not to expose or incrimminate terrorists</p>

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<p>Semitic is not a Jewish exclusive term. Saying that someone is anti-semitic doesn’t mean that they are anti-Jewish. Jews are only a group of semites- which also includes Palestinians and some other Arabic groups. </p>

<p>Pet peeve… sorry… but I’m an anal Jew. :stuck_out_tongue: And being the victim of Jewish prejudice, I hate to see this so utterly misnamed. </p>

<p>What really saddens me about all of this is how terrorists have managed to twist the minds of those around them that Jewish= pro Israel. Couldn’t be farther from the truth, and it’s something I resent. I, like berurah’s children, have been the victim of insults, harassment, and even a cross burning for being Jewish in a rural Georgian town. As more diversity came here, I was later persecuted by the Iranian population who too foolishly associated being Jewish with being Israeli</p>

<p>However, saying “Muslim shoots Jews” makes it seem like such a wide encompassing thing. And it’s not. People have freaked themselves out to the point where the us against them mentality is prevalent. And that’s just being weak. I know it’s all semantics, but these semanics reveal true feelings, and it’s a mentality that I really hate.</p>

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<p>actually anti-semitic is an exclusive term. Semitic may mean more than just jewish but when used anti-semitic only refers to jews. The person shot those jews not because he got mad at them or they did something to him but because 1. he was muslim, and 2. they were jewish. He did it in the name of islam and that is why it is important to identify the shooter as a muslim. Also i have a feeling that your isolation from an sizable or real jewish community in georgia is making you try to assimilate and distance yourself from judaism or at least israel. DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN. DO NOT FORGET WHO YOU ARE. You are first a jew and you always will be. Also i dont know what “palestinians and some other arabic groups mean” as a far as i know there are two types of muslims shiite and sunni, and they are arab if they are in the arab region.</p>

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<p>Skisaloman89, I think you meant “war of Islam against the world” in your earlier post. </p>

<p>It’s Islamic extremists (and those who consented by inaction) that is waging war against the civilized world. Set the record straight. </p>

<p>We in the western world never seek to destroy Islam. Even in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, President Bush and other US leaders warned us not to descriminate against the Muslim population; we always have and still respect other people’s religion, certainly in their own countries, and within US borders even after brutally attacked. It is not the same the other way around. It’s the infidels must die mentally. These are momentous times. Those in the muslim faith, it’s consent by being silent; it’s consent by inaction when your religion is being profaned by militants.</p>

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<p>collegialmom~</p>

<p>Truthfully, I’m with you on this. We can blame zero-tolerance policies for discouraging fighting back in those situations. Nevertheless, when he was PHYSICALLY attacked, my son did fight back–he just made sure he counted three blows coming his way FIRST. Actually, one of the incidents was caught on our school’s state-of-the-art video surveillance system. The scenario which unfolded was clear. The school took no action against my son, but it did expel the other student for the remainder of the year. Unfortunately, it was already April, and the perpetrator was back the following year, as an 18-year-old sophomore. :(</p>

<p>One of the complicating factors in the situation is that the school was dealing with two VERY different students. My son was a top student, good athlete, well-loved member of the class, and a kid with BIG dreams for his future. The other student was the polar opposite, and yet, with a zero-tolerance policy, each is treated in exactly the same manner.</p>

<p>I did, however, go to the administration after the first incident and basically told them that I would NEVER again ask my son to take a blow before defending himself. If he saw something coming, he was to defend himself immediately. And I told them that I expected that, given the history of the situation, all things would be taken into account before any disciplinary actions were taken against my child.</p>

<p>This type of behavior is our community’s “dirty little secret,” and I think the fear of this getting out (and the subsequent impact on our community’s rosy little reputation as a “great place to send your kid to school”) put enough fear into the heart of the administration, and they basically complied wth my request.</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>the problem is that no one of u know what mainstream islam is because “mainstream” islam keeps silent on all of these issues and the council on american-islamic relations is usually reluctant to take action against muslims</p>

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<p>Such a popular misperception, that mainstream Muslims don’t speak out against the radical fundamentalists. I’m not sure why so many people think this, though.</p>

<p>[A</a> sort of database of statements by mainstream Muslims condemning 9/11](<a href=“http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php"]A”>Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks).</p>

<p>[Statments</a> by Muslim leaders and politicians around the world speaking out against terrorism and 9/11](<a href=“http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm"]Statments”>http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm). Some of these are quite powerful.</p>

<p>[A</a> Palestinian business consultant speaks against anti-Semitism](<a href=“http://www.counterpunch.org/saleh1112.html"]A”>http://www.counterpunch.org/saleh1112.html).</p>

<p>[A</a> group of Arabs and Jews trying to link Arabs, Jews, and others who support peaceful coexistance in the Middle East](<a href=“http://www.mideastweb.org/index.html"]A”>Middle East: MidEastWeb)</p>

<p>[An</a> article by the chairman of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, discussing anti-Semitism and Islamophobia and condemning the violence in the wake of the Danish newspaper cartoon fiasco](<a href=“news.ibn.net is a custom short domain”>news.ibn.net is a custom short domain). It contains the following paragraph:</p>

<p>“At the same time, we Muslims should challenge the few among us who hold extremist views. Just as we ask others to respect Islam, we should continue to condemn anti-Semitism. The cartoon contest on the Holocaust by an Iranian newspaper is not keeping with the traditions of our beloved Prophet Muhammad – who out of respect stood up as the bier of a Jew passed by. Only responsible people can demand the same responsibility from others.”</p>

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<p>look i still do not see that as mainstream islam…when in americas cities imams in mosques are often caught preaching anti-semitism and violence. The problem is that this is a war against islam. Islam has to modernize in the same way judaism and christinaity did and still retain what it is. Judaism is the same as it was yrs ago however it has modernized in a way that all of gods commandments are kept. Just look at parts of the koran where it says that non muslims must be killed. Or when it says that the rocks and trees will come and help find the jews hinding beneath them and then will help kill the jews.</p>

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<p>Skis, your attitude towards Arabs/Muslims is really every bit as hate-filled as the Islamofascist spewing anti-Semitism.</p>

<p>I don’t see killing all the Arabs, another one of your pithy recommendations, as any better than killing all the Jews.</p>

<p>Rise to a higher moral ground. I believe there is a threat of militant Islam as well, but one need not condemn every Muslim because of that threat.</p>

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<p>both you and i do not know how many muslims are “OK” and how many arent. I am sure most of them are, but the problem is that their leadership is silent. The problem is that i believe 16 or 17 out of the 18 world conflicts going on rite now involve muslims. The problem is that there is no islamic country that has modernized while the only jewish country is a bastion of freedom where muslims serve in the jewish government.</p>

<p>Secondof all i do not understand y u have to misconstrue my words and take them out of context. Yes, i did say we have to kill all the arabs, but given the context you would see that it deals specifically with terrorists and their supporters. Israel has a duty to the jewish people to destroy every terrorist. When israel pulled out of every inch of gaza what kind of peace did it bring them? When israel pulled out of every inch of lebanon in 2000 what kind of peach did it bring them?</p>

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<p>semite: : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs</p>

<p>so why does anti-semitic mean racism against only jews?? How could an arab be anti-semitic if he himself is a semite??</p>

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<p>“both you and i do not know how many muslims are “OK” and how many arent. I am sure most of them are, but the problem is that their leadership is silent. The problem is that i believe 16 or 17 out of the 18 world conflicts going on rite now involve muslims. The problem is that there is no islamic country that has modernized while the only jewish country is a bastion of freedom where muslims serve in the jewish government.”</p>

<p>and what defines ‘modern’ to you? is it losing their religion and culture and becoming Western wannabes??? </p>

<p>“i think what some of you are missing here is that this is a war against islam. I feel thats the most important thing to understand. You can be PC and say not all muslims are anti-semitic and anti-american but the fact remains that muslim groups and orginizations and muslims in general are very silent when it comes to condemning their own people, yet very vocal in their attacks against jews.”</p>

<p>see, what I think your missing here is that YOU CAN’T WAGE A WAR AGAINST A RELIGION… That’s the greatness of living in America, you’re not supposed to prejudge people…</p>

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<p>The problem is that there is no islamic country that has modernized while the only jewish country is a bastion of freedom where muslims serve in the jewish government.
<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think India is fairly modern & Muslims in India are 2nd largest religion in India ( after Hinduism)</p>

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<p>Did you even read the links I provided? They’re full of Muslim leaders speaking out against violent Islamic extremism.</p>

<p>Yes, there’s a lot of anti-Semitism (using the widely recognized meaning of anti-Semitism = anti-Judaism) in the world, and there has been in the past too, and it sucks. I’m half-Russian Jewish with some “Jewish-looking” features, it’s not like I’m not aware of this. I’m working in Switzerland right now, and on my run this morning some guy yelled a derogatory name for Jewish people out his car window at me. People suck sometimes. But I also remember the nasty Islamophobia that was targeted at Muslims and Arabs, including kids, in areas where I was living after 9/11. In general, there’s just too much bigotry in the world.</p>

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<p>It’s fairly evident that EK4 is dedicated toward championing the islamic religion, even though deed after deed, daily headline after daily headline, islamic militants have been the cause of much of the world’s turmoil today. </p>

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…therefore Muslims can function in modern society, therefore the argument against it is not valid…etc.</p>

<p>The dominant religion of India is Hindu. Muslims and other religions are distant 2nds. Indian people are the most peaceful in the world, I might add.</p>

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<p>“as a far as i know there are two types of muslims shiite and sunni, and they are arab if they are in the arab region.”</p>

<p>Islam has around 73 sects, shiite and sunni being only two of them.</p>

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<p>“Yes, there’s a lot of anti-Semitism (using the widely recognized meaning of anti-Semitism = anti-Judaism) in the world, and there has been in the past too, and it sucks. I’m half-Russian Jewish with some “Jewish-looking” features, it’s not like I’m not aware of this. I’m working in Switzerland right now, and on my run this morning some guy yelled a derogatory name for Jewish people out his car window at me. People suck sometimes. But I also remember the nasty Islamophobia that was targeted at Muslims and Arabs, including kids, in areas where I was living after 9/11. In general, there’s just too much bigotry in the world.”</p>

<p>I sympathize with you, but as a Muslim girl who wears the scarf, I go through this as well, especially when traveling to the south of America people stare openly, I seriously feel like a freak show, soemtimes I’ll jsut stare back but they don’t get it… I went to universal studios and someone called me and my sister suicide bombers, I was at a barnes and nobles (and where I live it’s fairly liberal and this has never happened to me here, until these past years) someone called me an F-ing terrorist… Police will watch you more, and be more suspicious, parents pull their kids away, store owners will stare at you until you leave the store, There have also been so many hate crimes aroung the area, sure there are a lot of nice people, but this Islamaphobia has just gotten so much worse…</p>