Exactly, @lookingforward, she’s the type to not quit, even if it means a lot of suffering. We’ve been down this road many times. Not gonna get into it here, but this is my concern.
To everyone else, I am very encouraged to hear that some colleges don’t allow you to take 5 courses without permission. This might be the deal-breaker for her, because even though she is an excellent student, the school does know her history of depression and anxiety. I would be very relieved if it they denied permission.
Her advisor probably is the one who will be signing off. Going to be honest, not sure most advisors would know that a student has anxiety or depression unless she told them. That info would be pretty compartmentalized – might be a HIPPA violation to share it. I wouldn’t count on the advisor to veto it.
Her advisor does know about her mental health issues. @ucbalumnus, she has never had a 5 course semester, so this would be new territory for her. Some kids can handle 5 courses just fine. Because of her need for down time, I don’t think mine is one of them.
I had something similar back when I was graduating - the choice between graduating a year early with a degree in engineering, or finishing a fourth year to do engineering + math. I chose the latter and I think it was one of the best choices I ever made. That extra year definitely offered a lifetime worth of understanding of the value of education that, although not strictly necessary (job prospects were great with just the first degree), paid off in the long term in quite a few ways.
I was not the only one in this position. I knew around 10 others who were in pretty much the same position as I (capable of graduating in 3 years with an immediately marketable degree). Around 7 of them decided to stay a fourth (and often fifth) year and pursue a side-interest such as physics, business, economics, music, etc and/or a Masters degree. Most of them have done pretty well for themselves. The other three graduated early because they were sick of school. Two of them received pretty average jobs and are doing… average. The last one had some really impressive success but then plateaued (the result of too prematurely joining the workforce) and started to regret the decision to leave school early.
On wanting to be an adult: that’s a very normal and, in fact, good quality for a college student to have. I felt that way when I started attending college (meaning: spending more time on building a future than on the kind of fun generally associated with being a college student). Being a college student doesn’t mean having to be a child - there are both children and adults within the same age group going to college together. On the other hand, for hopefully obvious reasons, there is a time to move on from school because it really is time to structure your adult life around a career.
In short: education is valuable and she should finish her degree program without being in a rush to do so. But if doing this will stretch out her graduation beyond the standard length (usually 4 years for the BS) then it might just be time to move on.
European students are more like young professions (minus the disposable income) than US college students. Likely, she is feeling like she’s ‘done’ with the Ra Ra US college experience now that she’s spent a year enjoying espresso, red wine & lipstick, and delicious food and other experiences. I’m jealous
I would gently nudge her to take 1 more course (if possible) in France or over the summer when she gets back, giving her a normal 4 course semester. Then she can finish early (as she wants) and look for a job, hang with mom and dad, and see where the BF is at.
If the school is what I think it is, its web page says that an ordinary full course load is three to five courses, implying that a five course schedule is not considered especially unusual (though four is the norm). The student handbook does not appear to mention any special permission needed to take higher course loads. The drop deadline is four weeks without notation, but a course may be dropped after that until the last day of classes with a withdrawal notation on the transcript. The add deadline is two weeks.
even though she’ll still be in france or in transiet, is there a way to take one of the five classes over the summer online? with the invention of this great thing called the internet, its possible she can learn anywhere—obviously depends on the school, but many have online options these days.
“If the school is what I think it is, its web page says that an ordinary full course load is three to five courses, implying that a five course schedule is not considered especially unusual (though four is the norm). The student handbook does not appear to mention any special permission needed to take higher course loads. The drop deadline is four weeks without notation, but a course may be dropped after that until the last day of classes with a withdrawal notation on the transcript. The add deadline is two weeks.”
That’s nice. Some of us have just had kids graduate from that school so we know just a little bit more about the pressure there than just googling the handbook and passing it off as insight.
Knowing massmomm’s school, I would not have let my kid take 5 classes a semester there. It’s too much for anyone and particularly a kid with anxiety/depression. It’s not a typical school in many respects. It’s kind of a pressure cooker to begin with.
Suzyq - this school never provided a rah-rah U.S. college experience in the first place. It’s a fine place, beautiful, full of great people, but not a typical experience.
Is it possible that the advisor would counsel your child to NOT take 5 courses? (no clue about the school or how close the advisor is to the student) If my daughter’s advisor suggested remaining at four courses, she would listen to him but if I suggested remaining at four courses, she would likely come up with excuses and take 5 classes.
That was in response to comments suggesting that five courses would be unusual and need special permission – i.e. that the school will try to prevent her from doing it. Whether or not the school is a pressure cooker, it does not appear to be the case that there are any special administrative restrictions against taking five courses, whether or not it is a good idea. Or are you saying that advisors commonly recommend against it or that the OP’s daughter’s advisor is likely to recommend against it?
I.e. it may be a bad idea for the OP’s daughter, but will the school actually try to prevent her from doing it?
Fendock: “where does she want to live, once she graduates?”
If the answer is Camelot, that Medieval Studies credential might come in handy. But seriously folks, I can’t believe how many people think its not ok for a parent to have an opinion in such matters…especially if they are the ones writing the checks and they will be the ones picking up the pieces if kiddo has an emotional meltdown.
I wouldn’t know whether “advisors commonly recommend against it” because how the heck would I know what other students ask for or what their advisors tell them?
What I’m saying is that KNOWING the school in question, I think 5 courses is a bad idea for ANYONE there, and most especially a young lady who has had issues with depression/anxiety. It’s not a school that lends itself to fun or a balanced life to begin with.
Whether or not the advisor would explicitly forbid that isn’t really the issue. Though frankly if it were my daughter, I’d use any back door method I could. So if that involves a little behind the scenes with the advisor - well, la la, fingers in my ears, never heard a thing.
OK, reading a little about the school in question and the OPs previous posts re: DD, my opinion is that DD is really done with that school. Op, 5 months ago (while in France) your daughter told you she want to take a year off after coming back, before starting senior year. The fact that she now is thinking of a different way to finish up early at the school is a positive sign, because to me- reading through the lines- it seems like she really doesn’t want to go back to that school and is really done with the ‘internally competitive’ high pressure culture there. Not a ‘Ra Ra’ school in the big public university sort of way, but a catty, competitive sort of school - that she doesn’t feel like she belongs there anymore.
This must be scary to you as a parent (it would be to me!) because there is a big risk her of her not finishing college. Especially since you are full pay- doubly frightful. I really think you need to go with this idea - find a way to squeeze senior year into one semester or you will really run the risk of her not finishing. Agree that 5 courses fall semester will not do it, but really try and find her an online course for the summer or a local course she can take before going to school in September (when does she come back from France this summer?)
True story: I also took a semester abroad to Europe second semester junior year, and when I came back, in my mind, I was a 21 year old young profession with a boyfriend who was ready to start her adult life. I finished senior year, but was pretty much ‘checked out’ and totally laser focused on getting a job right after graduation and moving on. (Looking back, what was I in such a hurry for, LOL, I want to go back to college!)
Things are not the same on campus and the silly college things you once loved just seem immature. I’m sure your daughter feels the same about her small, intense, college and she has the additional history of anxiety that I didn’t have. She probably is resistant to tell you from afar, but I don’t think she likes her school much anymore, and she knows that you have spent a lot of money and doesn’t want to tell you that. She wants to finish so she can have that degree, but she doesn’t want to spend another year there. Help her get out of there early, with a degree. Don’t worry about the medieval studies… just keep your eye on that college degree prize. In my opinion, finding a course for the summer and taking 4 courses in the fall is the optimal path here. Good luck to you!
The college has restrictions on how many credits from other institutions they will accept (and that includes summer courses at other 4-year institutions, and study abroad credits, which all come in as pass-fail). @Massmomm, your D may not have any more pass-fail options left after spending an entire year abroad. We had a similar issue with our D, who spent junior year in Germany.
I agree with @thumper1 and @pizzagirl re the courseload. My D had to take 5 courses during the first semester back from a year abroad in order to fulfill requirements in both her majors. It was tough. I also would not advise a student struggling with perfectionism and anxiety to attempt it. On the other hand, your D may find that her experience abroad changes her attitude about grades. She may be more relaxed. It also depends on the courses. My D had no final exams that semester, only seminar papers, which she prefers.
@ucbalumnus, the college in question does not a culture or expectation of taking 5 classes per semester. It’s not forbidden, but it’s rare. Things possible in theory aren’t good in practice.
I also agree with everyone who pointed out that getting a second major does not matter nearly as much as finishing the degree in a timely manner. Since neither French nor Medieval Studies are pre-professional majors, it really doesn’t matter in terms of employability in a given area. I absolutely disagree that a French major connotes “fluff.” At least people know what it is. Sometimes the interdisciplinary “studies” majors (at all colleges) are confusing to outsiders.
“Not a ‘Ra Ra’ school in the big public university sort of way, but a catty, competitive sort of school - that she doesn’t feel like she belongs there anymore.”
I wouldn’t characterize it as a catty culture. I think it’s competitive in the sense of hard workload/high ambition/lots of self-inflicted pressure - not in the sense of competitive with others.
I know nothing about this college but I am wondering about housing. Is she going to be on campus or are you going to have to sign a lease and try to sublease the second semester if she isn’t there?
The OP most likely already knows this, but this college requires enrollment in three courses in order to remain on campus.
Also, it is the exception rather than the rule for any student to live off campus.
Thus, my thought that it might be a possible compromise to take only one course the last semester, live off campus, and, for the most part, leave student life behind.
Back in the dark ages…I actually chose to graduate a quarter early…March instead of June. I was so done with my undergrad school…and after my fall student teaching, I didn’t want to go back…at all. But I did…and squeezed in the courses to do so. I was already anticipating doing this before my senior year started…like OPs daughter. So…I stayed for the summer term and took three classes then.
But this wasn’t a pressure cooker school.
So…what options are available?
Online course now so that only four courses are needed in the fall term.
Will the school allow her to take an online course between January and June next year to fulfill that additional one course? Then graduation would not be until May.
Any chance she coils leave the internship early...in time to come back here and take a course...or two during the summer term. She has some choices to make, and maybe "doing it all"...completing the internship AND graduating early are not both possible at the same time.
Take a light load both terms next year. Look for a part time job innthe area of the school.
