My friend is convinced she will get into Stanford, now I feel worthless and need help

Applying to College
21

This is an important point that a lot of high school students get caught up on. You do NOT need to be president of every school club. That’s fine and well, but not at all what colleges are really talking about. For example, see the UC Leadership PIQ explanation which will hopefully broaden how you think about leadership:

Describe an example of your leadership experience in which you have positively influenced others, helped resolve disputes or contributed to group efforts over time.

Things to consider: A leadership role can mean more than just a title. It can mean being a mentor to others, acting as the person in charge of a specific task, or taking the lead role in organizing an event or project. Think about what you accomplished and what you learned from the experience. What were your responsibilities?

Did you lead a team? How did your experience change your perspective on leading others? Did you help to resolve an important dispute at your school, church, in your community or an organization? And your leadership role doesn’t necessarily have to be limited to school activities. For example, do you help out or take care of your family?

Even something like taking care of younger siblings at home can be LEADERSHIP and important leadership, too, from which you learn and grow and mature and take initiative and show creativity and problem solving abilities. And THAT’S what colleges want to see.

Agree with this and, honestly, if you continue placating her, I think this is going to be LONG four years. My daughter went to high school with people like this and a lot of toxic competition. She did not have a great four years trying to navigate that and was so glad to get out of that school and move on with her life. It sounds like it’s mainly your friend who engages in this behavior, which of course really sucks, but should be pretty avoidable if you make up your mind to do so. My honest advice is to put an end to this NOW. It is unlikely to magically get better. Maybe if she experiences the consequences of her behavior (loss of friendship), she’ll tone it down. Or maybe she won’t. Either way, you don’t want to be on the receiving end of this nonsense for the next four years. That will not serve you well.

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22

In the words of Monty Python your “not dead yet” so still time to work towards your goal Your Holiness.

OP same applies to you. Set your goals and pursue them relentlessly with indifference to others. Find things that make you happy it will feel less like work. I know I am making it sound easier than it is but try.

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23

My one piece of advice to you is that when you do make a decision as to which school(s) you will apply to, keep that information to yourself. Keep your list confidential and find a generic response to give when people ask you.

For now, relax and focus on being a high school student. The rat race of doing as many EC’s one can usually does not fare well. Don’t start a club or a non-profit for the sake of starting one.

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24

Friends should lift each other up and be your cheerleaders. Anyone who is tearing you down and sabotaging you is no friend.

I’d also encourage you to take ownership of your reactions, and don’t let this person impact your self worth. You sound like an amazing young person!

In the words of Kermit the Frog: “Rather than jumping over someone to get what you want, consider reaching out your hand and taking the leap side by side, because life is better when we leap together.”

Sounds like this “friend” hasn’t learned that lesson yet.

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I agree with everything the posters have stated about the toxicity of your classmate. Please listen to the people on this thread because they have LIFE experience. They not only can reference their own experiences, but also their children’s experiences and their student’s experiences.
My husband is a Stanford grad.
Our children applied to Stanford because Dad went there, but they didn’t get in. They weren’t bothered by it because they didn’t really want it. They did get into great colleges and are happy with the paths they took.

What your “friend” is doing, is mean and cruel. Remember the saying “when someone points a finger at you, there are four fingers pointing back at themselves.” Keep away from people who try to demean you.

Teaching staffs can smell this kind of child from a mile away. I worked at a high school and you need to know that teachers do talk about you amongst the staff. They know how to write their letters of recommendation when the time comes.

During high school, this is your chance to “spread your wings”. You don’t have time to mess around with the pettiness from immature children. IN HIGH SCHOOL:
You will have fun and become a young adult.
You will learn about work-life balance.
You will learn to drive.
You will learn how to submit a time card at your job.
You will learn how to “bank” annd electronically submit your paycheck to your bank.
You will learn how to divide responsibilities in team reports.
You will learn how to work on very little sleep when things are due.
You will have fun at Prom and MORP/Sadie Hawkins.
You will have teachers who support you and like you.
You will have a love of your activities.
You will have time for you to grow.

In your essays for colleges, the readers will know how much you’ve grown over time because of the maturity in your voice. Please don’t let anyone take your voice away from you. You are unique for a reason; stay away from anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.

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26

At best, they are someone you deal with (carefully and suspiciously, although with outward cordiality) only when you have to, or when there is something useful to you to be gained that cannot be gained in some other way.

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27

This is life. Happens at Princeton, Harvard, Brown, and other elite schools including professional schools such as law schools and medical schools. Should not be your concern.

Listen to your friend, understand her flaws, but focus on yourself. Why are you so focused on your friend ? This is not healthy to be obsessed with another in the situation that you have shared. Rise above it and do what you enjoy.

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No. You’re the one who cares about others, and the one who cares about your relationships with your friends. YOU are the better version.

Most do it by giving up what they love doings, not to mention their emotional and often physical health. There are a tiny percent who can do that - I have known a handful in my life. Not a single one of them tried to sabotage anybody else. They were either clueless and couldn’t understand why everybody else thought it was difficult, or tried to help others. But these are the 0.01% of all students, and you should get to know them, because they can be absolutely amazing.

More importantly: You. Are. Not. Average.

One of the things that I have done in my life is work in advocacy for gifted education, and you seem to fit into many of the characteristics of gifted. You may think that what you wrote was incoherent, but it was not. Everybody who read your posts understood what you were feeling, was able to follow your thought process, and understands what you’re worried about. You are a high school freshman and you wrote better than many college sophomores I have taught.

Don’t be sorry - what you are feeling is valid, and letting it out is so much better than letting it fester. As I wrote, feel free to come and rant and/or ask for advice whenever you have the need to do so.

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29

“Sabotaging you” is a serious allegation. If true, something about the relationship with your friend needs to change. However, sabotaging by having you prepare the wrong topics for an interview for a school club seems to like an odd way to sabotage. Are you certain it was intentional?

In general, I’d suggest focusing less on what your friend is doing/saying and focusing more on yourself. Your ECs look fine, but the ECs that tend to have most influence in admissions are ones that are impressive on a state/national/international level rather than school/club level. That’s more the level you are being compared to. There is not a quota of accepting x students from your HS, with you being in direct competition with your friend for one of the limited x spots.

I used to interview kids for Stanford. I only interviewed one kid who was accepted, which is not surprising, given the 3.x% admit rate. The one kid I interviewed who was accepted did not have ECs that were impressive on a national level with possible exception of one summer program, but she did have ECs that fit well with the full package of her application, including aligning with her interest in the environment and sustainability, as well some activities that appeared to be just random things she enjoyed. When interviewing her, I could tell that that she wanted to go to Stanford because it aligned well with and would support her interests/goals (Stanford has a School of Sustainability). When asked why they wanted to attend Stanford, most other students gave an answer along the lines of either “it’s a good school” or a relative encouraged them to apply.

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Some general thoughts & advice to consider:

  • a true friend would not be sabotaging you and cutting you down.
  • you are not behind on ECs. You’re actually ahead of the game. You’re doing just fine.
  • your friend is going to spend all of high school trying to step on people in her quest to be at the top of the pack. She doesn’t realize that you can succeed without being a butthead to everybody around you.
  • the bullet point above is not something you can fix for her.
  • In fact, I would bet that if you try to point some of this out to her, she will just use it as an excuse to poop on you more in an attempt to make you feel bad, feel inferior to her.
  • consider expanding your friend network.
  • it’s hard to realize this when you’re in 9th grade, but sometimes certain friends are only your friend for a season or 2 of your life. While you ARE friends, it’s fun and amazing and all things wonderful. And sometimes, you and the friend’s paths start to branch out in different directions.
  • don’t do some big confrontation with her. That will just put fuel on the fire and she may try to use that against you. Instead, just sort of slowly drift apart. Don’t answer her text messages or social media messages right away. Wait a few hours. If she invites you to do something with her, don’t immediately jump on it and agree to go every time. Be “busy” with something else.
  • Expect as high school continues, ESPECIALLY in 11th grade when it’s SAT/ACT test season, that she will ramp up the braggy talk about her test scores. Ignore it. Because she is young and foolish and ignorant.
  • Start listening to the “Your College Bound Kid” podcast. It’s geared toward parents, counselors, AND students like you. You’ll learn far more from that podcast about applying to college than your friend will ever know. And since you’ll know more than her, when she starts her braggalicious bullying at school over how amazing she thinks she is, you can confidently smile and nod.
  • Take however much time you need to mourn this friendship. Because the friendship is starting to end.
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31

I want to say that your writing is outstanding.

Do not underestimate the importance of being a good, kind person. These qualities will show in your essays and letters of recommendation- not everybody will have that, and it is important.

Being the president of a club or getting a certain internship is great, but getting accepted to highly rejective schools really goes deeper than that.

You do you. Continue with art, karate, shadowing etc. You have a lot to offer! You will also make new friends during HS- relationships change.

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32

No one can make you feel inadequate without your consent. Surround yourself with people who lift you up and help you be your best self.

Choose your own path. Be authentically you, make choices that are uniquely yours.

Don’t “shape shift” your way into college, that can backfire. It also reduces four years of important emotional, social and intellectual growth to a transactional passage to college. Instead, do high school well. In the end, you will be happier and, oh yeah, colleges will see authentic kindness and accomplishment and reward it.

Stream the movie “Booksmart.” I think you will enjoy it.

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33

I have to disagree with part of this advice. OP, you don’t need a therapist. You sound very mentally healthy. You are doing a great job of trying to deal with a challenging friend situation as well as manage your own college ambitions. Challenging social dynamics are a part of life and you seem to be handling this well. I agree with finding a trusted adult to talk with if you continue to struggle with this friend and her toxic outlook. But please view this as a typical part of life. We don’t need to pathologize every challenge in life. We don’t need therapists for every run-of-the-mill life’s challenge. We don’t need to question our mental health simply because something is unpleasant for us. Don’t get me wrong - therapists are incredibly valuable and critically necessary in true mental health situations. I come from a family of therapists and they do critically important work. But I believe it is actually harmful to young people’s mental health to teach them to categorize everyday situations as mental health crises in need of therapy. OP, you’re doing great thinking about this difficult friend situation! You’ve gotten some great advice from CC posters! You have a very mentally healthy perspective! Keep it up!

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Wow, I see! This clears some things up. Perhaps sabotaging isn’t the right word for what she is doing and has done. She has done things in the past like convincing me not to ask teachers if they would sponsor my club because “they wouldn’t care,” or she has tried to spread rumors about me so people would stop talking to me. I am certain what she did about the interview was something against me, because her sister was actually one of the ones doing the interview and had told her what questions would be asked. I only know this because when I make small talk with her sister, she told me how my friend studied and practiced so hard for the interview questions, which were very different from the interview questions she told me they would be asking. Maybe this was a mishap, but she is meticulous about what she says so I doubt so.

Additionally, I am planning to continue SCIOLY and I want to try out USABO next year. Of course, I originally wanted to do them for myself and because they seemed fun, so if I apply myself, a state/national level would be a bonus. But you are right, I’m just not sure how to actually make an impact on my community through extracurriculars since that is my main goal right now.

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Not an expert on the whole ECs thing since I’m also a freshman but if she sabotaged your interview, that’s toxic. This isn’t some CW teen drama where sabotage is okay. If your friend spent time trying to ruin your chances instead of preparing herself, that’s not your friend…that’s just toxic. It’s a hard situation since you obviously care about her but you should either talk to her about it and how that’s not okay or you should drop her. Make sure to surround yourself with people who support you not people who make you question your worth.

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36

It sounds like you and your “friend” have an unhealthy relationship. Some of the issues you listed don’t seem to directly relate to college admissions, such as starting rumors. It’s probably healthiest to change that relationship, either via discussing and trying to fix issues or ending/avoiding the friendship.

I also had an unhealthy relationship with a “friend” when I was a child. Among the group of kids in my local neighborhood, his family was the wealthiest by a wide margin. My family was probably least wealthy. If I had anything he wanted (a toy, a dog, going on vacation to a particular location), he’d get his parents to give him one. If I did something that could be perceived as negative, he’d be sure to tell everyone about it. I heard from others that he’d make up stories that I did various extremely negative things and tell others – both kids and adults. Yet for a long time, we still acted as “friends”. There were positive aspects of the relationship, not just negative. As an adult, I would never tolerate someone to treat me like that, and if someone attempted to do so would either change the situation or separate myself from the situation, regardless of whether it was a personal, work, or family relationship.

Now that we are both done with HS, the past relationship no longer matters. Prior to this post, it’s probably been 10+ years since I thought about him. Looking him up, I see we live thousands of miles away and have completely different lives. I attended Stanford and grad school after HS. He got married and had children early on, then later attended a local college and grad school. I have no idea which one of us is happier or more satisfied with our lives. There is no longer any kind of competition or comparison.

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37

The “Mean Girls” movie and the book “Queen Bees and Wannabes” comes to mind when I read what you wrote about your “friend.” And yeah, I’m putting friend in quotes because she’s not acting like a friend.

More like a frenemy.

I had a frenemy once. Only I didn’t know for along time that she was one. We met early on in college, were roommates for a couple of years, remained friends for long after that. And when I had kids, she was super helpful and was a treasure trove of knowledge and useful tips on how to survive parenthood with really young children. So for a long time, the friendship was great.

And then something started to turn when my younger child was headed into kindergarten. My “friend” (I’d even been a bridesmaid at her wedding!) started to say these snarky digs at me all the time. She’d mock me, poke fun at me, but it wasn’t in a fun or joking way…it was in a ‘stab you in the back’ way. the sort of thing that made you pause and think, “What the HECK?”

I started to notice how other things about her were changing, too. She’d even mock/make fun of her husband, her 13/14 yr old daughter. She’d make plans to meet up with a different friend while she was out to dinner with me…like talking to another friend right in front of me, not even including me. Oh and she got super upset/mad when I told her that we were enrolling our kids in a charter school for elementary school. She even had the audacity to say, “I give it a couple of years and then by the time your kids are in 5th grade, they’ll flunk out of that school and then I’ll laugh at you and say ‘I told you so.’”

That’s when I stopped trying so hard with my frenemy. I stopped seeking her out. Stopped calling so often. Stopped texting. Stopped inviting her out to do things together. And guess what? The feeling must have been mutual because she stopped reaching out, too. The friendship ended. There wasn’t any big blow up or anything. It fizzled out. Life moved on after that.

For a long time after that friendship, I would ask myself if it was something I did. Was there something I could have or should have said or done differently? No. The friendship was beyond repair. I tried.

Just like you’ve tried, too. But you can’t control other people. You can only control yourself. And life is too short to waste your time with emotional vampires like your frenemy. Some people are never ‘happy’ unless everyone else around them is miserable. They’re the sort of people who have to be the king or queen of the mountain and stomp all over everybody on their way up.

She’s probably a very stressed out, insecure person. But that is not your problem to solve. Watch out for people like that when you’re an adult…because sometimes, the Mean Girls never quite grow out of it.

I’m sorry that your friend/frenemy is being a butthead. You’re on a good path. Try to ignore people like her. People like her are background noise. People like her are not on your side.

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Talking to a therapist doesn’t mean that someone is mentally unhealthy. Nor did I indicate that I felt this was the case for this young Adult. Unfortunately there is such an overwhelming stigma surrounding therapy, that so many people do not reach out when needed. We need to normalize the suggestion that it is ok to see a therapist.

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There is, for sure, a stigma in my Gen X generation (not sure what your generation is). But not so much for teens today. Mental health is at the forefront of everything they do and hear and learn these days. Around a third of teens have seen a therapist. Surveys show that the majority of teens today have a positive view of therapy. And therapy is an excellent intervention when needed. But suggesting therapy every time a kid has a regular problem is not helpful. It’s actually damaging because it suggests to them that something is very wrong when they encounter uncomfortable feelings and unpleasant situations. We can see this across college campuses today where faculty are reporting the unprecedented fragility of their students which they have never seen before. Anyway, if a poster on CC is writing about depression, overwhelming sadness, eating disorders, abuse, etc., etc. we should absolutely be recommending they seek therapy. If, like the OP, the poster is simply writing about a tricky social situation with a friend, we should not be recommending therapy. When kids hear this message over and over and over again, they start to internalize the message that normal, every day challenges require therapy and mental health intervention. This decreases their confidence and mental health and resilience.

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40

I’ll take another tack here.
When I read the title of this thread, it was as if a 5 year old had typed “My friend is convinced she’s going to get a unicorn for her birthday and makes me feel bad for it”.
I know you’re not 5 but being convinced you’re getting into Stanford is the 15 year old version of being convinced you’re getting a unicorn at age 5.
No one has a sure shot at getting into Stanford – because odds are close to zero - okay, not zero, but even with political influence and everything, it’s no slam dunk. There’s no oracle, no certainty, only maximum uncertainty at best. No one can be certain and her behavior may actually play against her. If any teacher writing her LOR writes she has been bragging about her certainty she’s a slam dunk for Stanford for years… That’s all it’d take.
So let the chips fall where they may but keep in mind she’s bragging out of privilege and ignorance, not because she is getting into Stanford.

Now, more importantly, the fact almost no one gets into Stanford also applies to you. So your job - the hard job- will be to find 2 colleges that share enough characteristics you find important at Stanford - and thus you need to identify what you like about Stanford, specifically. If you tell us what that is, we can even suggest colleges that match what you like and where your odds are actually good.

Oh, btw… Don’t talk about colleges, test scores, etc, with toxic people. Their unhealthy attitude is no example and they’ll drag you down. :grinning_face:

You can watch the documentary “Try Harder” and weekly listen to the podcast YCBK. There’s even a novel about 3 girls who want to get into (Stanford? Columbia??) and their competitive mothers ..that I can find the title of.

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