<p>It is a tragedy. </p>
<p>One of the things I told my D is that it is usually safe to approach an adult and ask for help, but you need to quickly back away from adults that approach you with offers or soliciting help. I remember the kid who was lost in the woods and who heard searchers calling his name but didn’t call back because his parents had hammered him with a “don’t talk to strangers” mantra.</p>
<p>According to the news, the parents had gone over the route with him. He must have gotten distracted. At 8 (close to 9), that happens – they’re just not as mature as they seem.</p>
<p>while this horrific crime occurred while this poor child was walking alone, the reality is, it also could have just as easily happened while he was standing in front of his home, playing ball, waiting for his parents to go off to a playground. I think it’s important to not blame these parents…</p>
<p>The issue of children walking alone is an issue by itself. It really is not the main issue in this case, however. I do not blame his parents AT ALL. And yes, the child could be abducted anywhere, even from inside his own home which has happened in some high profile cases in fact.</p>
<p>The blame in this case is on the perpetrator. Evil and sick. It is disconcerting the many evil and sick people there are in the world. Too many terrible cases in the news every day. This was one of the worst but there are many others that are sickening too.</p>
<p>Another thing that troubles many in that community is that the perpetrator was a member of their own community.</p>
<p>First, thank heaven, the boy was suffocated and then dismembered. It’s horrible–I’m not denying that. I’m appalled. But at least it should be some small comfort to his parents to know it must have been over pretty quickly. </p>
<p>Second,the boy had done a dry run with his parents. You can’t criticize them on that ground. </p>
<p>Third, he missed a turn and went quite a distance in the wrong direction, so the man wasn’t simply waiting at the day camp. It really just a horrifying coincidence that he asked the wrong man. </p>
<p>Fourth, in that neighborhood, it is perfectly responsible to let a kid who was one week shy of his 9th birthday walk home alone for all of seven blocks. Etan Patz was six. There’s a difference. </p>
<p>The real lesson here is that we can’t tell our kids they can automatically trust someone who observes the same faith. It’s why altar boys let priests molest them --“He’s a priest, it must be okay if he says it is.” Or in this case, "He is an observant adult Jew.Therefore, I can trust him. " Many of the people in the community are jewelers. They exchange thousands of dollars of jewels every day with no written contracts. That’s part of the tradition of trust. This is part of the reason this is so devastating to the community–it’s one of their own. </p>
<p>It’s also possible that Leiby knew the man. He was a clerk in a local hardware store. It’s not impossible that Leiby had gone to the store and recognized the man he asked.Etan Patz did know the man who killed him. While we will never know the whole story, that’s probably part of the reason he went with him. </p>
<p>So, personally, I don’t think the lesson should be we wrap our kids in bubble wrap until they are 17 or 18 and go off to college and expect that they will cope. The lesson is that you cannot trust someone just because they are of the same faith or are in positions of authority or because you know them from the neighborhood. Heck, for those of us who think those cops did rape that drunk woman, you can’t even trust a cop.</p>
<p>Sorry, I only read the headline of this story, I cannot read any more. This is horribly tragic and my heart goes out to that poor boy and his family.</p>
<p>I too am deeply saddened by this case. My heart is just broken for Leiby’s parents. </p>
<p>We live in a suburban area on the East Coast. I’ve talked to my kids about the fact that most people in this world are good and I strongly believe that to be true. No doubt there are bad apples. I have spent a lot of time with them discussing instinct and respecting that voice or that feeling that tells them that something isn’t right. Both my boys, at separate times in their lives, came to me and told me that a man at their elementary school seemed creepy. My youngest was only in second grade when he told me that. I agreed with them and commended them on paying attention to their instincts. They were cautioned to never be alone with that man ( or anyone who makes them feel uncomfortable) and that they are allowed to disobey any adult who makes them feel unsafe and they would not get in trouble. </p>
<p>I strongly recommend the book Protecting the Gift. </p>
<p>Having said all that, I do allow my kids some freedom to move around in their neighborhood and the surrounding areas. Statistically, the world is not more dangerous than it was when we were kids (as far as child abductions by strangers etc). </p>
<p>I will be praying for Leiby and his family.</p>
<p>To be sad and praying is not enough. I wish we could publicly kill people like this. It would cure lots of others who are similarly “mentally ill”. It will prevent lots of killing of innocent. It is a shame and crime that we cannot do that.</p>
<p>miamidap, I really don’t think killing those who are truly mentally ill prevents other mentally ill people from murdering people. That would be assuming that they follow a rational and logical thought process, which a truly mentally ill person capable of this type of murder doesn’t follow.</p>
<p>Agree with hayden (and I hope this doesn’t get into debate about death penalty!) but mentally ill people (like this man appears to be in this case) do not think rationally and knowing that someone else was punished by death doesn’t keep them from carrying out their own behaviors. Your suggestion will not prevent sick people from doing sick things.</p>
<p>A healthy person would stop in their tracks and not only know that such behaviors are wrong in the first place, but would also know what consequences would befall them if they carried the action out and would think rationally about avoiding that consequence. A mentally ill person doesn’t think like a rational person and so the logic is not the same as you would have as a healthy person.</p>
<p>Also, take the man in this case. It appears he did not intend originally to murder the boy. He kidnapped him (not sure his reasons). Apparently, he has stated that the next day, once he had the boy in his home, he saw that there were searches for the boy that were overtaking the neighborhood and he panicked and killed the boy. He likely thought he would get caught if he released the boy who could tell others where he had been kept or his release would be witnessed with all the people out looking for the child. So, he killed the boy. A rational response (well it was never rational to kidnap the kid in the first place!!! of course), would be…“I’ll be in less trouble if I release the boy unharmed than if I murder him.”</p>
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Maybe, but in general parents don’t seem to do risk assessment in any logical way, and often just react to isolated situations which may be very low probability events. </p>
<p>Now that it’s summer, I see kids on bikes everywhere I go. VERY FEW of them are wearing helmets. S just went off his bike and spent 13 hours in emergency rooms, and the first thing everyone who looked at him asked was “were you wearing a helmet?” Thankfully, he was, even though in this particular case it didn’t really help him. I have always drilled the helmet wearing, and D doesn’t ride a bike since she won’t wear a helmet. </p>
<p>Not only do the kids not wear helmets, but they ride on the wrong side of the road, text and talk on their cellphones, we even saw one smoking a cigarette while riding on the wrong side with no helmet.</p>
<p>hayden,
"miamidap, I really don’t think killing those who are truly mentally ill prevents other mentally ill people from murdering people. "</p>
<ul>
<li>And I truly belive that it does. Not just killing, but publicly killing, cruelly killing with the same cruelty that they used on their victims. We will never know who is right and who is worng though. Because we care about murderers much more than their future victims. We will always protect murderers, our law is always on thier side. Loosing another innocent life is OK by our law, nobody will ever feel guilty for letting murderer free. Lots of cases are proving this point. So, in a way, you are correct, because it will never change. However, it is different in some other countires, where murderers are not let free, where innocent can feel a bit safer.</li>
</ul>
<p>One may tut tut about “blaming the parents” , but it doesn’t change the fact that they didn’t adequately protect their child. An 8 year old shouldn’t be walking 7 blocks alone, ever, anywhere. I doubt any of the CC parents posting here would have allowed this without at least a cell phone on the child. This boy was small, naive, unprotected. There is no magic to assure that everyone on the streets of a Hasidic neighborhood is good and sane. It’s an insular society, but it’s still open to and part of the real world. I hope one good thing comes out of this wretched event–that every parent in this community smartens up about protecting their children.</p>
<p>I’m even more flabbergasted that a summer camp program would allow an unaccompanied child of this age to leave its premises at the end of the day, regardless of the parents’ wishes. They, too, share responsibility. This isn’t just a matter of things being different in the 21st century. In the 1950’s I wasn’t allowed to walk the 15 minutes home from my small town school by myself, but had to be part of a “patrol” of all the kids on my walking route, who were led by older student “patrol leaders”.</p>
<p>MiamiDap, your beliefs are so at wildly at odds with the principles of justice of the United States, that I wonder why you are willing to live here. I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the work of the Innocence Project, which hopefully will cause you to re-think your stand on the death penalty, much less “cruel” public executions.</p>
<p>^Nothing will ever change my opinion in regard to real murderers. They are not human beings, they are beasts. I do not care about opinions of others. I live in this country because it allows me to have my opinion and not listen to others. I have a right to free speach as well as you do.</p>
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<p>I found this a bit surprising myself. At our local elementary school, the majority of kids are either picked up by car (but all arrangements must go through the office in terms of who is picking up a child on a given day, such as a playdate with another family, babysitter, etc.) or by school bus, and then some who live very close by in the village do walk. But these are very few kids. I suppose they are allowed to walk if written permission is provided by the parent. But all pick up and walking arrangements are cleared through the office for each kid. Maybe the day camp had a permission slip that this boy had to walk home (or to the point he was meeting his mom). But ultimately it is the parents who decide the arrangements and inform the school of these arrangements and the school carries them out. I don’t think the school has a rule that an 8 year old cannot walk home if the parent has given written permission.</p>
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<p>Most murderers do not go free in our country either. We don’t have to kill murderers to take them off the streets. They are imprisoned, and often for life. If you kill them, not only won’t it deter those who are sick enough to commit murder, but there may be innocent people in prison (it happens). You can speak about other countries where “murderers are not let free” (typically they are not let free here either!) but there are countries that stone and hang people for all sorts of offenses. Feel free to live in that society if you wish. </p>
<p>I don’t believe those convicted of heinous crimes should go free but I don’t believe anyone should have the right to decide to kill another person. If you want that right to kill someone, it is not that different than others who kill. </p>
<p>In any case, very sick individuals such as the perpetrator in this incident in Brooklyn, do not stop to think what will happen to them if they carry out murder. If they stopped to think like that, they wouldn’t murder because life in prison is no picnic either and that never stopped anyone from murder. This guy panicked cause he thought he would be caught having kidnapped the child (after he saw the searches in his neighborhood for the missing boy) and what does he do? Gets himself in more trouble with the law by actually murdering the child. Was he deterred that the consequence was going to be greater with murder than with kidnapping? Apparently not!</p>
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Yes, MommaJ, I also found that odd. I wonder why they didnt arrange for Leiby to walk with a buddy. Certainly, there was some other child at the camp who lived nearby.</p>
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<p>And the woman could have been one like the woman who procured Jacey Dugard in NorCal for her husbands decades long sex slave :(</p>
<p>^^ true, somemom, but I think the chances are better asking a woman with kids for help than a single man.</p>
<p>I grew up in NYC, and walked to grammer school alone , by 2nd or 3rd grade (5 blocks) or with friends. Everyone did. Also learned how to get around by subway and bus - at like 12 yrs old? My S grew up in an urban area, and was outside with friends by 9; it was what the neighborhood kids were doing - playing ball, bikes, etc. I spent a lot of time at the window peering outside; or dragging my other, smaller kids outside to see what was going on. The other moms were ok with it (big families, lots of kids around), and thought I was overprotective. I did the best I could, keeping an eye on him; but it wasn’t perfect. I had to learn to let him ride his bike with friends around the block! I drummed the don’t talk to strangers lesson into his head as much as possible. I do not blame these parents…true in hindsight they should have had the boy walk with a friend; or had a cell phone…but mostly it was horrible luck. </p>
<p>I was more conservative with my two daughters who grew up in suburbia - hardly anyone walked anywhere, or even played outside. </p>
<p>My mother claims that things were better when she was a kid, or even when I was a kid; I think these crimes just weren’t as publicized. </p>
<p>The line between being an overprotective parent and encouraging independence is a difficult one; each situation/child/environment is different. It comes down to common sense…and luck, ultimately.</p>