<p>Brooklyn, not Brookline…:D</p>
<p>LOL! Thanks! Can you tell I’m from the Boston area?</p>
<p>^^^^Yep, I inferred that!!! (I lived in Boston for six years and have had a D live there and I also have a D who lives in Brooklyn). :D</p>
<p>Soozievt wrote:</p>
<p>"don’t see how sleepaway camp itself would mean your child would need to learn to handle inappropriate adults any more than in other settings. Just my opinion. As I said, I consider myself a very cautious parent. "</p>
<p>The reason is with sleepaway camp, the child is away from home 24/7 and the exposure is therefore greater and those likely to molest children know that. There is some statistical evidence on it, plus I have both known and worked with people who are therapists and psych people, and when our child was young many of them recommended not sending younger kids to sleepaway camp, that they had had enough clients who had been there and had trouble to make them wary of them. </p>
<p>I am not saying that if a parent sends a kid away to sleepaway camp they are not being good parents, this is always an individual choice and comes down to what we feel comfortable with and don’t. It also depends on the camp and how they screen counsellors and so forth,there are no absolutes. Like I said, I see parents who send pretty young kids into public restrooms and it is a matter of comfort level,not about being a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ parent. </p>
<p>On the other hand, my son went away to a music program when he was 11 when most of the kids were way older, and other parents thought that would be a problem, that the older kids would be mean to him, or try to corrupt him and so forth, but we had confidence in him enough to trust him doing that. </p>
<p>In the end, it always come down to assessing the risk and deciding what is acceptable and what isn’t, and that is up to each parent. My parents felt comfortable enough when I was 13 or so to go into NYC with friends of mine from the burbs where i lived (this was in the mid 70’s when NYC was often seen as hell on earth by many burbites) to do things like go to ball games or record shopping, because they knew I had enough street smarts to handle it, and nothing ever happened (though the burbite parents who saw NYC as hell on earth were shocked <em>shrug</em>).</p>
<p>Just as an FYI, the Hasidim are in some ways the equivalent of the Pennsylvania Dutch in the way they live, they tend to be very insular, they follow strict rules on dressing based on literal reading of Hebrew Scripture (for example, clothing is usually only black or white, they have beards because scripture says that metal blades should not touch the face) and they live generally in communities of their own group, whether in the city or towns elsewhere. As far as having their own services and such, the Hasidim have things like their own security patrols and ambulance squads, but they don’t police themselves, and police have often acted to protect one group of hasidim from another in NYC and Hasidim, because of their large families and often fairly low incomes, tend to consume government services like public housing, food stamps and section 8 housing at relatively high levels, so they aren’t entirely self sufficient. With schools both hasidim and ultra othodox tend to send their kids to religious schools (Yeshivas) rather then public schools. </p>
<p>There are ultra othodox Jews who follow similar rules but are not Hasidim. If I understand Hasidic belief correctly,thet tend to revolve around a grand Rebbe who is considered the spiritual and temporal leader of their community. Ultra Orthodox Jews aren’t quite as insular, they will work in places outside their community which hasidim as far as I know don’t do and they are a bit more involved in the world in my experience. </p>
<p>The boy he would probably assume that Aron, who wore a Yalmuke, was a fellow Jew and might trust him because of that. Where the boy lived most of the people are either Hasidim or ultra orthodox, so he would probably not think twice that someone wasn’t a member of the community since to him people living there are. One of the problems with insular communities, especially with children, is that without the experience of other people their world tends to be a lot more trusting and naive about what is out there.</p>
<p>A neighbor says that Aron’s sister committed suicide. This suggests more family pathology. The question is if the defense team will offer a mental health defense.</p>
<p>soozievt, my mom used to drive a school bus for pre-school kids. There was always a teacher on the bus with her to supervise them. She took the morning kids home right before lunch and then parked the bus in our driveway until is was time for the afternoon route. She went out a few minutes early to sweep out the bus, and found a little boy asleep on one of the seats. She never thought to check the bus because the teacher was supposed to be the one supervising. She almost had a heart attack right there, thinking the parents would be frantic. They weren’t even the least bit upset (I never did figure that one out). I was in college, so she had me drive him home while she went on her route. The kid wasn’t upset at all. You better believe, she never left that bus again without checking it for sleeping children.</p>
<p>A dad who suffered a similar tragedy has a suggestion: “why not put a basic, emergency cellphone in the hands of every child? At the press of a button, children who are lost or in danger could dial 911, Mr. Patz reasoned.”</p>
<p>[After</a> Brooklyn Boy’s Murder, Father of Etan Patz Has a Suggestion - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/after-brooklyn-boys-murder-father-of-etan-patz-has-a-suggestion/]After”>After Brooklyn Boy's Murder, Father of Etan Patz Has a Suggestion - The New York Times)</p>
<p>I think that is a great idea and it would be wonderful if a phone could be designed that was so simple that even a young child could be taught to use it. Technology isn’t a substitute for common sense and supervision but it is a great option that should be explored.</p>
<p>My mom is 80 and doesn’t drive. My dad passed away recently and i worry that something might happen to her when she is alone or she might get stranded someplace and need a ride. I am going to look into a simple phone that she can have that will be for just those kinds of emergencies.</p>
<p>p3t, that is not a bad idea. Sort of like the GPS locator beacons used by mountain climbers, etc. The “phone” does not even have to make calls. Just pull a tab or something like that to activate the 911 distress signal.</p>
<p>My son has been in NYC this past week participating in a program. I had only spoken to him briefly to him before tonight. We talked for a while tonight and he told me he was in that area of Brooklyn earlier in the week and saw the handouts and felt the somberness descending on the area as the search intensified. We had to talk about it for a while and process it. </p>
<p>Regarding emergency phones, I don’t think a lot of kids can hang onto a phone without losing it when they are young. And it would be awfully easy for a predator to quickly take the phone from a child.</p>
<p>Maybe. A lot of kids that age wear wristwatches, so it might fit there. Or perhaps hang around their neck and be light as a feather. City children certainly carry keys on neckchains. </p>
<p>It’d take many school and home lessons to emphasize not abusing it or playing pranks. I can’t recall how the schools taught us all not to break open the fire extinguishers, but MOST of us took heed.</p>
<p>There is no perfect solution and, unfortunately, most of us want to be able to prevent this from ever happening to another child and we can’t guarantee that. It makes us feel helpless.</p>
<p>I do think that there are many areas of child safety that are fertile ground for ingenuity and creative problem solving.</p>
<p>A few years ago we had a string of people who accidentally left their infant in a hot car. Do you remember? The results were tragic. I remember coming up with an idea for a baby car seat that would alert the driver if the child was there when the car was locked.</p>
<p>There are lots of creative and smart people out there to design products that, while they won’t guarantee another tragedy, would be an additional tool to help prevent one.</p>
<p>Something around the child’s neck could work. Even if it was just a push button alert that the child was in distress, maybe with a GPS in it.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>I just don’t think these kinds of devices would be practical. A predator would remove them, but also the rate of false alarms would divert too much police energy. For example, two nights ago, I went for a walk/hike in the park near the hills. As I entered the park, I saw two very young boys playing in the path (it’s not the kind of park with a playground.) I looked around to see where the parents were, this thread fresh in my mind, and I didn’t see them. The kids looked to be about four and five years old. I was concerned, especially as it was dusk and I’d seen a very large coyote on my previous walk. I asked the kids “Where are your parents?” and one of the boys looked at me and then put his hands on his ears and said, “I’m not allowed to talk to strangers.” What if he’d pushed a button on such a device? Imagine how many times a day that scenario could happen around a city when an adult was perceived as a possible threat, especially with parents instructing their kids to do that if they felt uneasy? How many kids would push it if their parents disappeared from their sight in a mall? We don’t have the kind of police manpower it would take to respond to every child who pushed an alert when there was nothing wrong. Maybe a watch or wristband with a gps device in it that could be tracked in an emergency would be more practical, except that, again, it could be removed. But even then, if the police found a discarded gps device, they’d know something about what happened to the child, depending on where it was discarded.</p>
<p>When I adopted our dog from the ASPCA they surgically implanted a computer chip behind his ear so he could be found if lost by radar signal from the ASPCA center.</p>
<p>I’m not saying anything beyond that. I realize the comparison is ridiculous. Am just so sad.</p>
<p>As well, concerned for the uniqueness of this community as some kind of model to figure out what to do elsewhere. There are factors most communities across the country do NOT share and these could have influenced the particular course of events here. </p>
<p>For example, the Hasidim want their followers to first call the Shomrim, a kind of neighborhood police watch. Those guys are incredibly effective and say they handle 10 calls daily to find missing children successfully. They know their neighborhood inside-out (“like a spider’s web”) and quickly find children within hours as they are intimately familiar with all the yeshivot, bus and walking routes, etc. The missing child was first reported to the Shomrim, who then reported it to police 2-and-a-half hours later. I assume the delay was because the Shomrim saw their usual round-em-find-em methods were not working, so they notified NYPD. (The little boy’s mom first called Shomrim, as the rabbis advise families to do there, rather than first phone police. I doubt most communities have such a group of watchguards organized this well. Some say it’s a mixed blessing, because on OTHER types of crimes it creates an insular buffer between community and police that is NOT helpful.)</p>
<p>In THIS case, the police superintendent has stated those 2+ hours made no difference in the outcome, but it’s a point of contention with the local police chief. While acknowledging the effectiveness of the Shomrim (Hebrew word for “guardians”), he’d like to be notified immediately. Shomrim’s viewpoint is that they are a dynamic, on-call group of volunteers who jump right in, call/run about/ask people… and usually find kids within a short timeframe. They don’t want to alarm the police 10 times daily and use up police resource, when the SHomrim themselves are so good at finding kids. </p>
<p>This degree of community watchfulness (Shomrim) is rather exceptional in this country. It adds to the inclination of families to teach children to trust adults they BELIEVE are trustworthy based on outward appearances. Among the voices in that community I’ve read this week, one clear-thinking Hasidic parent said, “I teach my kids never to talk to street strangers, whether they’re wearing a yarlmuke (skullcap) or a do-rag.”</p>
<p>I think it boils down to something SoozieVt referred to, a tragic confluence of this child walking on that block, at that moment, where he was visible/vulnerable within sight of that particular stranger. Like the movie “Sliding Doors,” life’s random events turn on the width of a dime. We can improve the odds and should all be diligent as parents and community watch-guards. Nonetheless, tragedies occur.</p>
<p>We don’t have the kind of police manpower it would take to respond to every child who pushed an alert when there was nothing wrong.</p>
<p>That was my first thought as well-.
This also reminded me of when I was staying at my grandparents & my grandfather had a heart attack. My grandmother directed me to go to the house across the alley which I did, but I went to the wrong one, which probably was a shock to my grandmother when she called the other neighbors to see if I arrived. It also explains the surprise on the single homeowners face when I showed up at his door telling him my grandma told me he would take care of me.</p>
<p>I think rather than issuing 911 buttons to everyone, perhaps have several people in the neighborhood have something in their window stating they are a safe house & will help people in trouble & train kids to look for that?
I realize it isn’t feasible in some instances, but a good idea as part of a block watch perhaps.</p>
<p>There is really no perfect solution. What would prevent a pedophile from blending in and posting a “safe house” sign in his/her window? A “safe house” would not have helped Zina Linnik who was kidnapped from the alley behind her own house and brutally murdered.</p>
<p>I was thinking along the line of the triage training courses in the case of disasters for neighborhoods that is held by community police officers, no it won’t weed out psychopaths like Ted Bundy necessarily, who worked at a local crisis hotline along side police officers, but it could be more practical than dispensing 911 buttons to all children and overwhelming the local police station.</p>
<p>A friend who has friends in Leiby’s neighborhood told me that the rabbis are now telling parents to instruct their children that if they do get lost and MUST ask for directions, they should only approach women with children. They should NOT get into a car of a stranger, even a woman who is with children. </p>
<p>Seems like a rational, common sense approach to me. </p>
<p>Foolproof? No, but 95% of all acts of violence against children are committed by men, so statistically asking a woman reduces the odds of something bad happening. Not getting into a car with a stranger is basic common sense.</p>
<p>Of course, it’s not fool proof, but it seems to me that talking through what your child should do in YOUR neighborhood and near HIS school is the right approach. I suspect it will work much better than issuing 911 buttons to little kids or creating brigades of people to search for lost children.</p>
<p>jonri, that makes perfect sense.</p>